In this episode of Roompact’s ResEdChat, we welcome Dr. Shirley O’Brien, Foundation Professor for the Department of Occupational Science and Occupational Therapy at Eastern Kentucky University. This episode explores a collaborative partnership between Occupational Therapy and EKU’s Housing & Residence Life department to develop and implement the Colonels Mentoring Colonels Peer Mentor Program, an initiative to support residential and commuter students who identify as neurodiverse.
Guest: Shirley O’Brien (she/her), Foundation Professor, Occupational Science & Occupational Therapy at Eastern Kentucky University
Host: Jasmine Nettles
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Roompact’s ResEdChat podcast is a platform to showcase people doing great work and talk about hot topics in residence life and college student housing. If you have a topic idea for an episode, let us know!
Transcript:
Jasmine Nettles:
Hey y’all, and welcome back to another episode of the Roompact ResEdChat Podcast, where I’m one of your hosts, Jasmine Nettles, an Associate Director for Housing and Residence Life at Eastern Kentucky University. And today I have another special guest and I’m going to talk about a program that I run under my housing department. So first, I will let my guest introduce herself.
Shirley O’Brien:
Hi everybody. It is a pleasure to be here and an honor too to share this space with Jazz. I am Dr. Shirley O’Brien. I’m in the Department of Occupational Science and Occupational Therapy here at Eastern Kentucky University. My background is in sensory integration, which is kind of how I got into this whole area of Colonels Mentoring Colonels that we’ll talk about.
Jasmine Nettles:
Yeah. So a little bit about what we’re going to talk about today. So one of the cool things that I get to do, obviously all things retention and student engagement, I manage a program called, or co-manage a program called the Colonels Mentor and Colonels Program. So this is a neurodiverse peer mentorship type of program in collaboration with the occupational therapy department in Housing and Residence Life. So I know you may be thinking, “How did this come about? Why do these two offices work together to run this program?” And so for our first questions to start our chat, Dr. O’Brien, where would you say the idea for CMC came from?
Shirley O’Brien:
Okay. I have to be very honest. This came from a student.
Jasmine Nettles:
Yeah.
Shirley O’Brien:
She was a resident assistant and she was in my sensory processing and occupation class. And she looked at all the assignments and she said, Dr. O’Brien, I don’t want to do these. What I wanted to is address an issue we’re having in res life. So I said, “What is it? ” And she said, “Well, so many of the roommate problems we’re seeing stem from people who may be on the autism spectrum or have sensory processing difficulties. So I want to develop a program to help them fit in better at college.” So that was her project for the semester and we researched it together. We met. It really was more of an independent study because I just wiped all of her assignments out of the class and we went with it. And this was 2015, so pretty cool. Pretty cool.
Jasmine Nettles:
So when I got to EKU in 2020, I was an RHC initially, a residence hall coordinator, and it was right at the height of the pandemic. And everyone was having communication issues and things like that. So when I became an AD in 2023, the very specific, the nuance of the roommate issues, I started to also notice the difference in communication for students who were struggling with sensory, but also the difference in personality development and just the things that students were comfortable doing. One of the biggest things we would get with our students was their ability to have traditional social interactions. And so once I became an AD and took on the program, the program really had been used to assist with having those difficult conversations, but we were able to transition it more into, let’s also teach them more skills, let’s pair them up with other mentors, which was what they were doing initially.
But our side of the house with the events became, what can we teach them, what can they take away? And so I want us to talk maybe a little bit about the first steps when we started our partnership, because it had gone through a couple different offices. The counseling center played a role for a little bit. We had people from advising who were referring students. But when we started together, Dr. O’Brien, is there anything you remember from when we first started to transition the goal of the program?
Shirley O’Brien:
Oh, you speak to my heart because it’s about participation, participation and engagement. As occupational therapy, and again, most of our mentors came out of occupational therapy because we used it as a field replacement also. But what we really did is shift the outcome to participation in college life. We have so many programs on campuses who are tutoring, really talk about how do I join or how do I learn what my differences are? But people are not bridging the gap to, how do I really participate in college? Because we know those who participate are the ones that graduate. So it becomes retention and graduation numbers that we were really looking for. And so that’s what I saw us do. Jazz, you had such great ideas of just weekly activities. Let’s give it a shot. And we may get one person, but one person is more, and then that one person brings another person the next time.
Jasmine Nettles:
I think the biggest part of the idea, because some of the students were like, “Well, can we run this like an RSO?” Well, no, because you want it to stay specific to the students who have disclosed to us that they struggle with neurodiversity or just the difference in how they interact socially than other students. But we also had those P1, P2 students who were in occupational therapy who also wanted to learn how to navigate and coach students, potential future clients in learning those skills themselves. And so when we got into the idea of the partnership, obviously my skill is event planning. So I know if I’m aware, I know what sensory skills are, I know what they need to learn from a housing standpoint, but we rely a lot on the occupational therapy side to say, “Well, yes, but don’t call it this. We can practice this, but let’s do it this way.” And so one of the structure from the OT side was something else I wanted to talk about, because can you talk about the weekly mentorship meetings and the sessions for how the OT students work with their mentees from HRL?
Shirley O’Brien:
Okay. Well, the students meet usually for an hour on campus in a public place so that they’re able to set up a goal for the semester. It’s like, what do you want to do? And then they also do another assessment. It’s a modified occupational profile is what it is. And so they ask them, it’s like, “Well, what do you value? What are your interests? And then how satisfied are you with your skillset?” So that’s how they then develop one or two goals and they then say, “Okay, over six weeks, what could I work on?” And check in weekly. It may have to do with something about participation. It may have to do with what are some life goals.
And then the OT students have been really good at learning their role as a coach, not as a direct interventionist. And I think most people, when they come into a major, they all want to fix people. And it’s like, we’re not here to fix people. We’re here to support, we’re here to provide the environment and/or help the individual structure their environment for success. So that’s kind of where we go with the weekly meetings. And then the OT mentors meet with myself, another OT faculty member and our graduate assistants, both from Res Life and from our area. And they just talk. What we find is that the coaching mentors talk better to peers their own age. When I walk in the room, they all shut up.
Jasmine Nettles:
“Why are y’all in here? Are we in trouble?” Every time.
Shirley O’Brien:
Yeah, that’s it. But they’re able to talk and then our GAs come back to us and meet with us additionally and say, “Okay, this is what we’re finding. This is what we need to … How do we coach our mentors to do this better?” And I think it’s just fun. It becomes a real self-awareness activity for the professional students along with for our mentees who mostly are living in the dorm, but we have expanded a little bit. So we do have some commuter students also saying, “Hey, I want this. How do I get involved?”
Jasmine Nettles:
Yeah. And I think one of my favorite parts of us learning how to navigate the program from me not knowing really anything about OT and you never having a housing background, we played off of that. And so when it came to the mentors and our OT folks, they know that neurodiversity, it spans several topics. You have from ADHD to autism disorder, but learning the language has been something that’s been really cool for us on our side of the house. I know that when we are doing conduct and when we’re writing processes and procedures and stuff in our office, because I’ve spent so much time working through this, that has helped with that, but I know something that we’ve been able to give you all, but with our OT students is teaching them what the crisis protocols are for campus. So teaching them how to write Say It reports or if something is elevated or something serious happens, literally simply just giving them my cell phone number to say, “I don’t care what time it is, just call me,” because it’s easier for me to teach you how to walk through it.
And a lot of them were like, “Oh, I didn’t even know there was a Say It team. I didn’t know that I could just write a report about a friend?” “Yes, you can.” And because they were in this position to coach students that way, they’ve been able to find that out. And I think that’s what’s been super cool about this. And when I talk to people about CMC, they’re like, “Where did y’all come up with this idea?” Listen, I inherited it. It came from 2015, but the way that we do it now looks very different than when we first started it. And so I wanted you to talk a little bit about your conference experience because you all have been very successful in sharing this information or talking about the program with the OT field in general.
Shirley O’Brien:
Well, we have. And I do want to say before we go on, that we purposely named this program Colonels Mentoring Colonels,
Not doing to, but doing with. And that is key piece of really building that participation part. So we’ve been able to take this to OT conferences locally, state, nationally, and now internationally. We presented this two years ago to the OTU International Research Symposium, which is a group of OTs internationally that are doing some cool programming for neurodiversity. This is a growing, growing field on college campuses. And to really partner with your OT program or to hire an occupational therapist, that’s where we’re seeing more OTs getting hired, particularly on the West Coast. The West Coast is moving a little quicker than where we are right now in the Heartlands.
But the model program comes out of Ireland out of Trinity College, phenomenal. If you’ve not looked at their website, you’ve got to see that Dr. Karen Lewis, oh my goodness, I’m a groupie. And he happens to be on our conference planning committee. So I’ve really enjoyed looking at what they’re doing. So that’s kind of where we’ve been. We’ve gone every year to a conference. We’ve presented at the Ohio Low Incidents Conference, OCALICON, which is now a virtual conference. And we get RAVE reviews. I just looked at our evaluation data from this past year and it was like, “Oh, you got to come back. You are on the cutting edge of looking at transition programs.” And I think it’s because of our focus, Jazz, of looking at participation and engagement.
Jasmine Nettles:
And we keep it so … I think the simplicity of how we run the program, yes, we use data because those we, like Dr. O’Brien mentioned, the meetings that they have weekly, I keep track of that on the housing side as far as the forms and where they can store the data. It’s as simple as running a report to give it to whoever would need it, but we keep it so simple because when you start to overcomplicate it or when you start talking science to students who just want to learn how to be friends with people or build general relationships with people, that’s when you change the intention and their motivation to be involved in it. And so I was so pleased or impressed to hear that people are receiving it so well because again, sometimes the more simple way of pairing a student with another student to get them to talk to each other based on what their comfort level is, it’s really that simple.
Something else I want to talk about too is the structure. So you have a GA, I have a GA, and my GA, most of the time of my graduate assistant, they are an occupational therapy student and yours is obviously as well. Their relationship, I think, has also something that we don’t see a lot when we look at transition programs is there isn’t always a voice from each side that’s involved. Exactly. Yeah. And so I wonder, has there been a moment in our collaboration that stood out to you the most as far as this is really working or this is going to work?
Shirley O’Brien:
I think from the get-go, I really do because Caitlin Palmer was the student involved at the time. She’s now married, but she really set the tone for what was going to happen in Res Life. And she wasn’t my GA. She’s like, “I want to work with your GA.” And so it really helped me to see that we’re just not about identifying a clinical model. And that’s what’s real different because a lot of places across the country right now are placing a program like ours, not in Res Life, but in either a-
Jasmine Nettles:
Counseling center or a health clinic.
Shirley O’Brien:
Yeah, counseling center or a health clinic. And that infers a medical model, which does not work for participation. And then the other part of it is that students are coming to college and say, “I’ve had an IEP in high school. I want to do this on my own. I really want to be my own person. Why do I have to label myself?” Well, all of a sudden by, again, taking that word neurodiversity out, even though it’s inferred, with Colonels Mentoring Colonels, they’re like, “Okay, I could be part of a program and I’m not identified for my uniqueness.” And we always call it strengths-based. So that’s been the real benefit. And so that’s what I’ve seen all along. We have strengths-based graduate assistants and somehow they know that. I don’t know if we just recruit them.
Jasmine Nettles:
Yeah, definitely on the housing side for sure because especially I’ve been very lucky because my GA position also has to be able to help me in the traditional housing things as far as retention and engagement. So having someone who has the OT background has always been helpful for me, but them also being a formal student staff member, fantastic because I don’t have to teach you curriculum, I don’t have to teach you why this is important, but that also allows for them to teach their co-grad in working with this program to be helpful. And so you said the word benefit, and I want to make sure that I also bring this up too for people listening. Incentivizing this program, this is an unpaid thing. Other than our GAs, our mentors don’t get paid, the mentees don’t get any type of incentive outside of something that we started recently.
So now towards graduation, any mentor that completes their 10 sessions with their mentee, but our mentees as well, they get a graduation cord. And I think that came from the idea of us wanting to, one, give them recognition for the achievement of completing the program, but also something for them to get because a lot of these students, again, they’re not in traditional programs. They’re not in traditional RSOs or clubs or jobs on campus to get the STOLs or the pins that people wear at graduation. And so I would say anyone considering creating something like this, don’t forget to add something for the students to take away like a piece of swag, like a T-shirt or something like that. But the cord has been the most successful thing that we’ve done. And I think we’ve been doing that now for the last two years.
Shirley O’Brien:
Two years. Yeah.
Jasmine Nettles:
And it’s OT. We did a braided cord of white and green for the things. So yeah.
Shirley O’Brien:
And it’s really exciting when you see a student walk across the stage for graduation who has been a part of our program, there’s nothing more heartwarming and fulfilling as a faculty member to say, “That’s one of ours.” And to give them the thumbs up as they walk off the stage and it’s like, “Yeah, here we are. We got this. Yeah, way to go.”
Jasmine Nettles:
And we know what that means. And especially when you realize people who take their grad pictures and you have to explain what’s in your photos, we were very intentional about the cord that we chose because nor the office or OT doesn’t use the braided cord for anything. So we picked something that would be so specific to them as an achievement to complete the program either in their senior year or just whatever to remind them of whatever year that they completed it that they did it, which has been so cool. So I wanted to also make sure that we talked a little bit about maybe the future of the program and where do we see it going from here?
Shirley O’Brien:
Well, I think the partnership with Res Life really is what keeps us going because it grounds us. And it’s my dream that we will also start to look more from a commuter standpoint, really because we’re learning that more of our students are not living on campus, they have needs, they want to be a part of a group that they don’t know how to socialize within. So that’s where I see us moving toward. And I also see us building this program through our freshmen studies, the GSD courses, talking with the GSD coordinator just to promote it, to look at what do we have to offer, particularly OTs approach this from our skills are not just in activities of daily living. We like the activities in the occupation, but sleep schedules, learning how to organize, all of those executive function pieces that coming out of COVID, so many of our populations really need.
So I think that’s my dream, that we move into that idea of a broader OT perspective and that ideally I would really like to have an OT at least part-time somewhere in Student Services. Right now, it’s you and I volunteering our time.
But I really do think looking at this differently, and that’s where this international movement is moving toward, with hiring OTs and not just putting it in terms of accessibility, but really putting it in terms of participation. And that’s why Student Services is key.
Jasmine Nettles:
Right. And so I’m glad you mentioned the commuter part too, because it reminds me of what I wanted to share too before we start to wrap up. Advertising the program and how you present it is going to be key to anyone that’s creating any type of initiative like this. I know something that I am very fortunate to do just also in my role in housing is I get a lot of face time with parents when we’re doing orientation and different things like that. And so adding in the Colonels Mentoring Colonels, when we talk about what our services are for housing has helped significantly and parents making us aware that my students, they may not reach out to you, but could you be aware of them? And so we do a lot of direct outreach to students. If I get a name from a, we created the referral, we’ve had some long stretches of periods trying to get it integrated into Banner, but we just created our own referral form and we send it to faculty.
So when you’re in class, if you’re noticing these things, refer them to us. Don’t refer them and tell them you referred them, but we reach out and say, “Hey, come check us out at this event or come get connected with a mentor or come learn X, Y, and Z with whatever event is coming up.” But we’ve added the language of the program and just exposing it to parents, but also to our students as we’re moving through the welcome-to-campus process.
And I wanted to ask you too, Dr. O’Brien, as we wrap up, what message or what recommendation would you give to a colleague or someone in my area or yours that’s interested in starting an initiative similar to this?
Shirley O’Brien:
I think you need to look strengths-based and that has to be key. It’s not looking at disability, but it’s looking at ability to successfully complete college and look for partners. I mean, we are a great example of partnership, and again, we’re just thrown into it. Most people would not think that we would have a role in Res Life. Boy, I really see a big role. Res Life really fits for me. And the other thing, I want to go back to something you just said, Jazz, was about we do a lot of outreach and we talk to families when they come on tours because a lot of times students will come through our department, just saying hi, being a relater. A relater is a good thing, but having something on your webpage, and I think that’s where we’ve struggled, just where we are institutionally, but really talking about it so that you’ve got those little links in there, people will know about it.
And then coming back at just inviting people to participate, that’s what it’s about, that invitation, “Hey, we’re having a cookie decorating contest this week. Why don’t you join us?” So that’s kind of what I can offer.
Jasmine Nettles:
Yeah. And I think I know that, I forget the specific statistic, but we are having more students who are self-disclosing their struggles with neurodiversity and their achievements with neurodiversity because being autistic or having ADHD or any type of disorder is what people would call it doesn’t make college something you can’t do. It just makes it a little bit harder. And so us making sure that information is somewhere students can get to it whenever they need it, that has been probably one of the biggest struggles, but we just do it all the time now. So we’re like, if I can put it somewhere, if I can … We started using social media more to advertise the program and we’re about to start the next, which Dr. O’Brien, I’ll be in touch with you soon. We got to do the next thing for orientation before we come up.
But yeah, so I think just from the RES Life side, I would add that if this isn’t something, because I had absolutely no background in working with OT or students with neurodiversity until I became an AD that had to manage this program. But just asking questions and not being afraid to say, can we try something like this has been beneficial for me too. So I would recommend anyone being asked about it, even if it’s not going to be your role in Housing and Res Life, read the literature, ask them to educate you anything you can do, like my event skills, listen, I’ll do anything. We have a budget for events, let’s do it. But yeah, I love it. But thank you so much, Dr. O’Brien. It is always a pleasure getting to talk to you. Did you have any other parting thoughts before we wrap up?
Shirley O’Brien:
No, I really don’t. There is a journal that is currently in development stage, the first edition, they have a call for papers that’s looking at, it’s a little bit broader than student life. It’s looking at occupational health and needs of college students. I will get that for you so that that way we can put it as a reference. I didn’t even think about that.
Jasmine Nettles:
Awesome.
Shirley O’Brien:
It really is a cool thing.
Jasmine Nettles:
Yeah, just send it to me and we can tag it with the episode.
Shirley O’Brien:
You got her. You got her. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for having me. This has been so much fun and I love working with you.
Jasmine Nettles:
Thank you so much, Dr. O’Brien. Thank you so much listeners for tuning in again to another episode of the Roompact ResEdChat podcast, and I will see y’all next time. Bye-bye.
Shirley O’Brien:
Take care, everybody.
