In this episode of Roompact’s ResEdChat, Crystal talks with Markayla Clayton, a Community Director at the University of Oregon as they explore what it means to set and protect boundaries as a live-in professional. From saying no without guilt to communicating needs with supervisors and students, Markayla shares real strategies for balancing presence with self-care.
Guest: Markayla Clayton (she/her/hers), Community Director, University of Oregon
Host: Crystal Lay
Listen to the Podcast:
Watch the Video:
Show Notes:
- We Can’t Give What We Don’t Have: Boundaries Over Burnout
- Supervision Needed: The Crucial Impact on New Housing Professionals’ Well-Being | Hodge, Wilkerson, Acquaye – ACPA Developments
- Report Examines Live-In Staff Well-Being – ACUHO-I
About ResEdChat
Roompact’s ResEdChat podcast is a platform to showcase people doing great work and talk about hot topics in residence life and college student housing. If you have a topic idea for an episode, let us know!
Transcript:
Crystal Lay:
Hello and welcome back to Roompact’s Res Ed Chat podcast, a platform to showcase people doing great things and great work and talk about hot topics in residence life in college student housing. I’m your host, Crystal Lay, and I use the she/her series pronouns. Today we’re going to talk about boundaries when you live where you work. I actually lived on for quite some time after grad school, seven years as an entry level professional and then a couple more years after that in mid-level and senior level roles. So from day one living on, I always tried to have some really, really good boundaries because I thought, I live with you, I work with you, and I don’t want to talk about work all of the time and I want to make sure that I have some community outside of my job, because these jobs can take quite a bit.
But my experience was years ago, and so I thought, who is someone that I know who could talk about what it means to live on campus and really navigate the complexity of the work that you do as a live-in professional and then also have a life and be a part of building a community for yourself. I found the perfect person, I’m really excited to have them here today. With that, I’ll have our guests introduce themselves.
Markayla Clayton:
Hi, my name is Markayla. I use the she/her series of pronouns. I currently serve as a community director at the University of Oregon. Previously, I’ve been a resident assistant, lived on for three years, and then I was a graduate hall director for about three years, did my first full-time role actually off campus and lived off, worked in the operations realm, and then recently went back to a live on experience here at the University of Oregon.
Crystal Lay:
Thank you so much for joining me, and I love that you’ve had to live on and live off because I think that’s going to speak really well to some of the things that I want to chat with you about today. So first off, we’re talking about being a live-in professional. What are some of the things that you genuinely enjoy about living on?
Markayla Clayton:
I mean, convenience. I mean, I know that’s… I’m kidding, but not really. I do really enjoy just being close to work and just being so close to the work that I care a lot about. I mean, I do the work that I do because I genuinely enjoy it and I want to do it, and I love getting to work with the students that we get to work with. So being close in proximity, you really get to experience their lives, get to experience what they’re going through and also being a part of their sometimes daily life, getting to see them in passing, maybe parking near each other in the parking lot and then walking in and getting to have a little chat. So you really just got to be there all the time experiencing life together.
Crystal Lay:
Yeah, I love that. It’s like you literally, depending on your apartment and office placement, you might just roll out of bed and then your next door is your office. So the commute time is pretty good too, right?
Markayla Clayton:
Right, exactly.
Crystal Lay:
Then like you said, you get to see the students outside of the classroom space, which I think is something that I recall being a really cool piece too. So we’re talking about boundaries, Markayla. What does setting boundaries mean to you as a live-in professional?
Markayla Clayton:
That’s a big question. I feel like there’s so many aspects to what it means to set boundaries, whether you’re living in or living off, when thinking about the boundaries that you set with your student employees, with just students in general, with peers, with supervisors. There’s so many layers to setting boundaries, but when I think about setting the boundaries that I set with residents and RAs, CAs, whatever your university calls, I think I really try to be available, but yet not always available, as simply as that is. I really want to be there for my staff members and I care about them as individuals.
I go back and forth about giving out my personal cell phone number. I usually maybe wait until maybe a rapport is built because I don’t want them to feel like… I would rather them not call me when there’s an emergency going on in the building or they have a question because it’s what our on-call staff is for. That’s literally why we’re paid the way that we’re paid, is because we have on-call staff and it’s their job to respond. But it is, again, really hard because I personally really care about the staff that I work with.
I think a big part of the work that I do is I really want people to feel like they have someone. If they feel like they have no one, they at least have me. I really want my staff to feel like they can contact someone if they have no one. So sometimes it’s like, again, depending on their personal relationships and their family dynamics, I know sometimes those relationships with supervisors-supervisees can really get deep into the topics that we talk about. I think that’s also a really hard part of this job, is those boundaries. What is too much to share? What is not enough to be able to make them feel comfortable that they could come to you and reach out if they need help or assistance?
But for me, there has to be some boundaries or I’m just going to feel like I’m working all the time. Some people can do that. I definitely have friends who thrive on being there for their students and for their student employees, and they are available 24/7 to their staff members. If that works for them, it works for them, but it doesn’t work for everyone. It also creates weird dynamics within the department sometimes where some RAs were like, “Well, my old supervisor, I could contact them at 1:00 AM and they would get back to me, but you aren’t that available to me.” I’m like, “Well, we have different boundaries and that’s okay.” Sometimes it’s hard for people to understand that we all have different boundaries, we all have different needs, and we have to set them in different ways, if that makes sense.
Crystal Lay:
Yeah, I think it totally makes sense. You did mention do I want to give out my cell phone, my personal cell phone? You also talked about leaning into the on-call system, because there is a structure that you can utilize. So instead of calling me at 1:00 AM, as a hall director or a coordinator, you should call the on-call system. What are some other type of boundaries that you believe have felt most important for you when you think about your wellbeing, whether that be with students, staff, supervisors, or peers?
Markayla Clayton:
Yeah, I think about what I have on my personal phone or on my laptop. When I think about notifications, I am someone that if I see a notification, I’m going to think about it and then I’m going to just worry about it. So knowing that I can set this boundary with peers, with students, with student employees of like, “Hey, don’t message me because then I will not respond past whatever time.” But I also want them to feel like they can message me because I’m the type of person, if I think of something, I’m definitely going to forget it unless I write it down. So sometimes I’ll message my supervisor at random times being like, “Oh, we need to talk about this next time I see you,” just so I wrote it down and I communicated it, but I don’t expect my supervisor to have seen that, especially if it’s after hours. I just need to document it.
So for me, I want to create that space for my peers and my student employees and my students so that they can write it down if needed, but then I need to take it upon myself too. Okay, I have notifications turned off on my phone. I’m not going to be checking my Teams app after hours because I know if I see a notification and I see what the content is, I’m not going to be able to not think about it. So it’s like you set these boundaries with peers and with people, but it’s also like you have to respect yourself in those boundaries that you set with yourself and with your peers and things.
I think something else, one of my friends years ago told me that it’s always good to find things off campus and sometimes away from campus. So if you’re interested in fitness and you want to go to the gym, maybe don’t go to the gym on campus where you’re going to see students. Maybe intentionally get a gym membership off campus, or even on the other side of town, so there’s a lesser chance of seeing students there and you got to get away, you get to get off campus, you get to disconnect even just for that hour or two that you might be working out. It’s always, I think, just good to find those little things that do get you away from campus to just further create that boundary that you don’t have to live, exist, and work all in the same place that you work and live.
Crystal Lay:
You talk about going to a gym across town. Now, don’t judge me, but I remember I used to have my hoodie outfit to go grocery shopping. I would just be in the grocery store with my hoodie on, my sunglasses, hiding out. It’s not that extreme, but sometimes as you’re working through boundaries and what makes sense, it can feel that intense, like you’re almost always on. But I think the heart of what you’re saying is what are the things that you need to incorporate to make sure that you have the things that you need to be successful as a human and a professional staff member?
It also sounds like there’s a little bit in communication and expectations. If someone does send you a message at 2:00 AM, you’re also saying, “Hey, it is okay to send that message if that’s the way you function and move about the cabin, but I will not be responding to that at 2:00 AM.” I heard a little bit of that in your answer too. I want to talk directly about students, and you talked about this a little bit, but I want to go further. What’s the balance between being accessible and supportive to students while also protecting your time and energy? Is that possible?
Markayla Clayton:
I think it’s possible. I like to think that I’m doing a decent job, but I think that’s really, really hard when you think about, again, the work that we do. A lot of people do the work they do because they care so much about students, about people and about their experiences. But for me, it is really just reminding myself that I’m not going to be able to support people the way that I want to support them if I’m not supporting myself. For me, that’s looked like seeking therapy, and going to therapy and making sure that is a standing meeting that I’m not canceling for anything. I think normalizing that, and honestly sharing with your students that that’s something that’s important to you, I think is a big thing.
I don’t know, that’s a really tough one. I think when it comes to talking with your students about it, I think it’s trying to help them understand also what the role of a live-in staff member is. Sometimes, oftentimes, this is the first time that someone is going through this experience of living on campus, knowing what that means, knowing all the resources that that means, and that includes. I think a lot of people don’t understand what a professional staff member is who lives in and what their role is. I mean, so many times myself and my peers get confused with the RAs. So just knowing that we’re a little bit different, and then when you drop the knowledge that you also live in the building and there’s an apartment hidden somewhere in the building, they’re like, “What? Where is it?” You don’t need to know that.
I think we care, again, so much about the work that we do, but also expressing that this is a job and we get paid to do the work that we do, and helping students understand that we’re also not the only one that you can reach out to. There are definitely other people on campus, people that work the normal 8:00 to 5:00, that are in offices across campus to support you as well. I’m also here to help redirect you and find those resources, because I’m not going to be able to be that one person that has all the information, all the experiences, and be able to support any type of student that lives in the building.
Crystal Lay:
I think that’s perfect because you’re talking about helping students and your student staff understand what your role is. You also said, I don’t have to and I am also not supposed to do this by myself. There are other resources that I want to connect you to as a student. That’s really perfect. I think sometimes live-in folks can feel like they are the only person. I am responsible for these hundreds of humans in my building, and if I don’t fix it, if I don’t do it, if I’m not there, everything will fall apart. I think it’s how do you help the students find those different resources on campus and then also remind yourself of that as well? That was really beautifully stated.
So what advice would you give, because you’ve lived on a couple of years now and then you have the role that you have now as well, what is some advice that you would give to brand new professionals, first time on the gig, who might be afraid to say no or they feel guilty? Because you’ve already talked about the tricky part of wanting to be there, you care about your students and you also need to care for yourself. But how would you help a new professional through the saying no part of it and actually getting to the place where they can set boundaries?
Markayla Clayton:
I have so many thoughts, and there are so many ways to do this and it truly depends on the person. When I think about, we’re about to hire some new staff here, so if one of them were to come to me and be like, “How do you set boundaries or what do you do?” I think really encouraging them that no is okay. I think people are so afraid to say no, they’re so afraid to disappoint, they’re so afraid to not be available. I think being an entry level professional, they’re afraid that they’re not showing up in a way that they should, or that it’s seen that leadership or supervisors are like, oh, well, you’re not showing up as much as your peer who is over extending their self. Does that look bad? Does it show that you don’t care about the role or that you don’t want to get experiences? Are you going to be prevented new experiences?
I’m just going to go on a tangent about this because there’s so many different things that could happen when you say no. I think it really just takes being able to understand that you have to say no, you have to be able to advocate for yourself. I mean, isn’t that what we’re trying to teach our students how to do for themselves? So if we can’t advocate for ourselves, how are we modeling that and encouraging our students to do that, again, if we can’t even do that for ourselves?
I think a lot of higher ed professionals are over overachievers, definitely people that want to seek different experiences and seek different opportunities. I mean, I do that for sure myself. I mean, sometimes you’ve got to say no to opportunities and just hope that that opportunity might come up again. I know in my last institution, I was really excited to go to a regional conference and present at this conference. Now me leaving that job and now in a new job, I don’t have that opportunity that I previously had, but now I can seek that out in a year or two in this new region that I’m in. So just because I said no, doesn’t mean it’s never going to happen again.
I think that also looks like communicating with your supervisor and hoping that your supervisor can get to know you enough and know that when you say no, you mean no. And what does that look like? What does communication expectation look like between you and your supervisor? If there’s ever a point in time where your supervisor or your department is not supporting you in taking time for yourself or having boundaries, there are different campus resources that can support you in that. HR seems like this big, scary department, but sometimes they’re there to help us employees. I would hope that they’re always there to help employees, but I also know that people have bad stories with HR, but that’s what they’re there for.
Different universities have ombuds programs. There is counseling, there are other resources and services on campus to help support staff members too, and so making sure that you know your resources and knowing who to talk to. I think your peers are also really good. Sometimes going peer-to-peer can create drama and complaining sessions. Sometimes that’s really cathartic, and I have definitely been there, but honestly, just getting to chat with peers and expressing, this is my experience. Am I alone in this? Even getting some validation in like, I said this, is this normal? My supervisor said this, is this normal. Just helping with that validation for sure.
So I think just learning how to do it, accepting that it’s okay and you shouldn’t ever get in trouble for having boundaries, but also while doing your job. Because I think sometimes there are definitely people that use those things to their advantage, for sure, because there’s so many different dynamics and so many different opportunities. But do what you can, do your job, but also know that it’s just a job and take time for yourself when you can.
Crystal Lay:
I like the way you ended your answer with this piece about you have to do your job because I think that’s a part of what can I say no to? That’s the question, right? That’s the conversation with your supervisor. If you take a job that’s live-in and you say, “I don’t want to live-in,” that’s probably not a reasonable no. If you take a job that has on call, and you’re like, “I don’t want to do on call,” probably not a reasonable no. I think that’s a part of it, is do you really understand the role, what is being asked of you, and how do you separate out my boundaries from my wellbeing versus I don’t like this part of the job, I don’t want to do it? Because then that’s the accountability conversation with your supervisor or maybe that’s like, oh, maybe shouldn’t have taken this job.
But I think you can’t really smoosh those in, but I think it’s really easy to do that of I’m setting a boundary, I’m not going to be on-call and respond to something at 2:00 AM. You’re on call. So I think it’s tricky, but we need to have these conversations because if we don’t, there’s a lot of room for assumption, I think. You talked about supervisors. Is there something that you think a supervisor can do or upper leadership can do to help entry level folks feel encouraged and respected when setting boundaries?
Markayla Clayton:
Absolutely. I think hearing staff out. I’ve been in departments that it kind of feels like upper leadership is so far away and they’re off in their own world, obviously doing magical great things, because you need all the different levels and all the different people to do the work. But entry levels and live on professionals, they have a lot to work with and to deal with. If upper leadership is not hearing what they’re going through and experiencing, they are missing such important information to be able to make good decisions for the department and for the university and for students.
I think just creating a space that people can share their experiences, can share their problems, their ideas, I think creating that line of communication is big, and not just assuming that people, they know that they can reach out to you, being so specific and so maybe, I don’t know, just going the extra mile and reaching out by email, by in-persons, talking by their office. There are so many ways that upper leadership I think could step up and step in to help support entry level professionals.
I think something else that comes to mind is I think there are a lot of professionals who have this mindset of, well, I’ve done it before and it wasn’t that hard, so why are they complaining? It’s not that hard. Just do it. I get that mindset. It also kind of feels a little hazy to me of like we’re toeing a line of like, well, I went through it, so you have to go through it too. So proceed with caution on that, because that definitely not an environment, I would hope, that we would want to create within the department, and especially for our entry level professionals. As well as times have changed and things have changed. So yes, you might’ve been a hall director 20 years ago. Things were so different 20 years ago.
I even think of five years ago, COVID happened, and things have been so different since then. I was in grad school during COVID. I even just think about I took a break from live on and now I’m back to live on. Live on for me is just even different from four or five years ago when I was live on. It’s just acknowledging that times change, things change, student needs change, how we show up in our roles change, and also the education that we’re receiving in our grad programs.
Also, acknowledging that many people in our field now don’t come from a higher ed background. We all have different thoughts and experiences and knowledge that just change how we show up to spaces and how we respond to things. I think just looking past the, well, I did it and it was easy. Okay, well that was for you. That’s not for everyone. Acknowledging that everyone has different experiences, different identities that impact the work they do, I think just taking a step further is something I would hope to ask from supervisors and upper leadership.
Crystal Lay:
That was really powerful. I feel like some of your comments are getting into maybe some generational differences and experiential differences in the field. Now, I will admit, I was born in the 1900s, may or may not have been born in the 1900s, 1980s to be exact, but we are from two different generations. I know that for a fact knowing you, Markayla. I’m wondering how have these generational perspectives like you or your peers, folks in your generational group, how does that shape how you manage your work-life balance or integration or asking for what you need?
Markayla Clayton:
Yeah, I think it’s been so different. It’s so interesting to see. I mean, even an example, me and my peers would talk about our salary. We all have a range. There’s a job posting, there’s a range of salary, and we talk about it. We’re like, “How much are you getting paid?” That is such a taboo topic still. I know upper leadership we’re like, why are you guys talking about it? Let’s normalize some of these hard topics just so that we’re making sure that we’re all getting compensated at least similarly based on your education and your experience. I think also this change of, I don’t know if it’s just in higher ed, but in our society as a whole of we’re not… What is the… I think I’m going to get them backwards. We’re working to live, not living to work.
I think of the younger generations are like, I want to have a life outside of my work. I don’t want to put my all and my whole identity to be tied up into the work that I do. I want to make sure that I have a life and it’s separate. I am not seeking out all these opportunities, I’m not going to this conference because I have plans to spend time with family, to spend time with friends. I think that can also be really, really hard when living on and expected to have these days where we’re like, you absolutely cannot do anything. The only way you can be excused is if there’s a death or a wedding sometimes.
I think the younger professionals are just wanting to live more and be accepting that it’s not just about work. The work is going to be there when we leave. If I leave my job, the university is still going to go on. If I literally die tomorrow, the university will still go on and my job will continue on and things will keep happening. I think just changing that mindset that it’s not always life or death. Of course, it is. We deal with people, we work with people, it can be that serious sometimes, but majority of the time it’s not.
Crystal Lay:
Yeah, it’s like you said, the university will keep moving whether you are there or not. I think it goes back to some of the earlier comments that we had, was this idea of we have to do everything and be everywhere for everyone. No, it will be okay. I don’t want to feel like I’m ever that important to where I think the entire system is going to break down if I am not present. So hopefully that gives some relief that it will be okay most times, in most situations. So how are we taking a moment to understand that this job may not be someone’s life? That’s very real. My job has never been my life. In my list of priorities, my job is number three, and I need a job because I have to feed humans that look at me every day.
Markayla Clayton:
I have to feed a cat, so you know, same.
Crystal Lay:
Which one of the benefits of living on is I watch your cat go back and forth. Love to do a podcast with the cat because they are their own star back there.
Markayla Clayton:
He’s ready. He’s sitting right over here, he’s ready to join in.
Crystal Lay:
I love it, I love it.
Markayla Clayton:
He’s lived on four or five different campuses at this point, so he’s ready. He’s got opinions.
Crystal Lay:
He’s got a little suitcase and everything ready. Okay, so I do appreciate what you shared about the generational pieces. With all of that and what you’ve shared so far, what do you wish, if you had a couple of things, or even just one, what do you wish more folks understood about live-in housing professionals in 2025?
Markayla Clayton:
I could talk for hours.
Crystal Lay:
I don’t have hours, just give me a couple of things.
Markayla Clayton:
I think one thing that I haven’t really talked about, and something I do want to acknowledge, is the boundaries between peers, especially live on peers. When I think about the last institution I worked at, between pro staff and grad staff there were 30 almost 40 professional staff that were living on campus. That is a lot of humans. I think when working in housing for so many years, a lot of your friends are your coworkers. When I was an undergrad, my besties were other RAs. So you think that goes through life, but when I get to full-time, when there are literally, at my last institution, 30, 40 people, that’s a lot of humans. I think finally learning I don’t have to be friends with everyone and that is okay. We are adults and we’re allowed to be friends with who we want to be friends with and that should be okay.
It can get really messy when you work and exist in the same place, you see each other. Especially living in a small town, it can get hard, and people feel left out and they get hurt, and then it creates a lot of drama and things for the department. I hope that people moving forward just know that… I like to think the best of people, I don’t think it’s malicious. Maybe it is for some people, I don’t know. I don’t know everyone. But I think you should be allowed to be friends with people, be friendly with people, and it should be okay. You shouldn’t have to feel the pressure or you shouldn’t have to worry about like, oh my gosh, I’m going to make this person upset if I don’t invite them to something, when we’re literally co-workers all living in the same space.
Of course, it’s a great opportunity, a great space to meet so many like-minded people and I’ve made some of my bestest friends from living where we work, but again, it shouldn’t, I think, be such a negative experience when living on and living in. I think that’s another big thing about boundaries, boundaries with students, but also boundaries with peers is really, really big. I am interested to learn more about that topic specifically because I’ve seen the impacts of the group dynamics when it comes to peers living on campus together. If you’re mad at someone outside of work, is it going to impact your work, it shouldn’t, and vice versa. I think a lot of different people have different opinions, but I think that’s something I wish more people understood, is the dynamics that can arrive… Arrive, I don’t think that’s the right word. Arise when you all live where you work and you want to be friendly or friends in the spaces that you work. I think that’s something that people should explore and understand a little bit more.
Crystal Lay:
I agree with you. I think for folks who are trying to… We’re all leaders and folks who are in upper leadership trying to sort out, do we get involved or not? Because it’s tricky. I had no desire to be BFFs or friends with anyone I worked with. Now, we worked together, we did good work, and a lot of us are friends later, which is really cool to look back and have these reunions like, oh my gosh, we were all RDs, class of blah blah blah. That’s been so fun to be a part of each other’s lives after the work, and so I don’t know where that’s coming from. Is it a small town thing? Is it a generational thing? Is it you just have the right mix of people who say it’s hard to make friends as an adult? I don’t know what the formula is that has gotten us to a point of folks feel like we have to create an environment where folks are friends in addition to co-workers, but I do agree that would be worth studying or learning a little bit more about.
This has been really good. Thanks for sharing all these pieces. I’ve learned a lot and some things I want to think about as someone who does not live-in and who is from the older generation who lived in and was an RD a lot of years ago. But we’re coming to the end of our time, Markayla. If folks want to learn more about this topic as you think about boundaries or self-care, wellness, etc, where would you recommend they start?
Markayla Clayton:
That’s a great question. I think just starting those conversations, as simple as that is. I don’t have a list of resources ready to go, maybe I’ll do some research and share with the class. But I think just starting those conversations with peers, with supervisors, with leadership when the space and time is there. I know in our weekly meetings, we definitely have time and space to bring up topics that we want to discuss, and so I think that’s a great opportunity. So I think that’s just step one. Then of course, knowing your resources on campus for yourself as well, as a professional, because there are plenty of resources on campus. So of course support students, but also support you as a staff member.
Crystal Lay:
Well, thank you. I think, like you said, the conversation is a good and maybe the first place to start, and then what are the resources available to help you figure out what are my boundaries? Because maybe folks haven’t thought about that before prior to living in. Then once you get here, it’s like, ooh, I need to set some boundaries, I need some help. So thank you for sharing everything that you did. There’s a lot of great information here, Markayla. I’m so grateful you joined me today.
Markayla Clayton:
Thanks for letting me join you. It was great to catch up and see you.
Crystal Lay:
Yes, yes. Thanks to all of you for joining us on this episode of Res Ed Chat. If you have an idea of a topic or a person that you would like for us to have on the show, please let us know by reaching out to Roompact. Take care.
