In student affairs, especially Housing and Residence Life, we do what I like to call “shadow work”—outside the classroom, in late-night conversations, in the spaces where students grow into themselves. In this episode of Roompact’s ResEdChat, Host Jasmine Nettles and guest Bernard Nichols talk about understanding “why” we do what we do, what keeps us going, and how our personal values and lived experiences have shaped the way we show up for students.
Guest: Bernard Nichols (he/him), Assistant Director for Student Conduct, The Johns Hopkins University
Host: Jasmine Nettles
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About ResEdChat
Roompact’s ResEdChat podcast is a platform to showcase people doing great work and talk about hot topics in residence life and college student housing. If you have a topic idea for an episode, let us know!
Transcript:
Jasmine Nettles:
Well, good afternoon, everybody. My name is Jasmine Nettles, and I’m the associate director for Residential Curriculum, Living Learning Communities and Signature Events at Eastern Kentucky University. Welcome back to the Roompact Res Ed Chat podcast. I’m one of your new hosts. This is my first episode and I’m very excited to get to know y’all and y’all to get to know me.
Today on my first episode, we are going to talk about meaning-making and our connection to this work. I thought it was important for me for my very first episode to introduce myself with this topic and in this way, because I’m someone who has a very personal connection to this field. In student affairs, we do what I like to call shadow work. People might call it something else. That’s just the term that I give it, courtesy of the Shadow Man from Princess and the Frog.
I say that we do the work outside of the classroom. We do the work in late night conversations and spaces with people and students to give them a chance to grow, and to help them and to lead them and to coach them. So on this episode, we’re going to talk about understanding why we do what we do, what keeps us going, and how our personal values and our experiences have shaped how we show up for students and how we show up for ourselves and colleagues in this field. So I’m hoping that we’ll be able to get into some good stuff in the next 30 or 35 minutes, and talk about our purpose and our passion.
So my experience started at Ferris State University where I was a resident. I was this resident advisor, I was a hall director and a desk manager while I was there. Eventually, I went on to the University of Central Arkansas for graduate school, and that is where I met our guest. So when we picked our guest for our first episode, we were advised to pick someone that we trust, that we care about, that we know, that makes us comfortable, and I don’t think I picked a better person than the person that’s here me today. So B, do you want to introduce yourself to the people?
Bernard Nichols:
Absolutely, and thank you, Jas, for giving me this opportunity. Hello, everyone. My name is Bernard Nichols. I use he/him pronouns, and I currently serve as an assistant director in the Office of Student Conduct at the Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore, Maryland.
Jasmine Nettles:
Period. Welcome, B. I’m so excited to chat with you today. So I talked a little bit about my first experience. To go a little bit deeper into that, I’ve worked in almost every functional area, whether as a student worker, as a full-time staff member, and so I will say that anytime you come into this field, there’s always a moment. There’s always something that happens and you’re like, “Wait a minute, that’s someone’s job?” Or it’s something that you remember, maybe even years down the line. For me, I tested into below average math courses when I started at community college before I transferred. I tested in those courses, I wasn’t passing, and I tried to take the algebra course that I 100% was not prepared for. I had been dropped, I had failed that class three times.
I had an academic advisor the fourth time I went to register tell me, “Why do you keep trying to take this class if you can’t pass it?” And my answer was, “Well, I just don’t want to feel dumb in the remedial classes,” because that’s what they were called. I had a very intentional, very direct conversation with this advisor. She convinced me to take the courses, and I transferred that following fall to Ferris State. I enrolled in my algebra class that I had failed three times, and I got a B plus, because I listened to her and the counsel that she gave me. And so that interaction led me to explore what that looked like as a student worker and then eventually finding my spot in the field. So Bernard, can you tell us what drew you into student affairs?
Bernard Nichols:
Oh my goodness. There were a lot of experiences that led me to the work, but one that really stands out now, I’m a first gen student and I can remember navigating all things financial aid. That can be a whole lot, but mama didn’t know. She was just like, “Let me know what I need to do.” My dad really wasn’t that invested, but it was the care that I received from Dana Rickwick. She worked in financial aid at Ole Miss, and she was so patient with me during that process because I knew nothing. She would ask me questions and I was like, “I don’t know.” I walked away from that encounter feeling seen and supported. There are some folks who could have easily been frustrated in that moment. She was so patient and just so caring, and that moment to this day is the reason why I ensure that I’m showing up as my best self to support any student I encounter.
Jasmine Nettles:
And I love that because I think that is normal for everybody, especially those of us who’ve joined the field and stay in it for a long. And so I’m wondering, can you talk a little bit about the roles and experiences you’ve had and maybe how some of those things impact how you show up or what you’re hoping to leave behind because of those experiences you’ve had as a professional?
Bernard Nichols:
Yeah. I think that honestly, it starts with the why. And so I’ve experienced a lot of great moments working in the field, but what I will say is that it’s the not so good ones that [inaudible 00:05:23] me to reevaluate what that why is, whether it’s navigating difficult conversations to just supporting students in these unprecedented times that we’re in right now. It shifted from just wanting to make an impact to really understand how I’m going to make the impact. And so I started in all things Res Life because my goal was to ensure that students felt like they were at home away from home, knowing that those critical conversations I had with residents who violate policies would result in me educating students and advocating for students in the conduct space who are overlooked, misunderstood, and disconnected. And so when I think about what I want to leave behind, I want folks to know that I was super intentional about enhancing the student experience, because also the work that we do is bigger than us.
Jasmine Nettles:
And that’s so good because a lot of us have the superhero syndrome. A lot of us become student affairs professionals because we want to change the world because something, either something very specific or just overall is very important to us in this field or in the work that we do. And I know that from my own experience as a high school student to college, I’ve always wanted to feel seen. I’ve always wanted to feel like I had community, I’ve always wanted to feel like I was protected. And so I didn’t really know exactly how to get there. I just knew that if I stayed in this pocket of people, I would figure that out.
And so stretching across orientation and diversity office work, I worked in the dining hall, you don’t really look at the specifics of what those jobs are until you’re in a position like an associate director and you’re like, “Oh, wait a minute. I learned how to do that six years ago.” You know what I’m saying? So you mentioned knowing what your why was and how you do it, how you do things to get to your why, and can you tell me what your why is and whether or not it’s evolved over time?
Bernard Nichols:
My why now is solely tailored to collaborating with students in a way that they reach a place of self authorship. I think that back then when I got started, it was more tailored toward, “Ooh, let me support this student because they’re going through a hard time. Let me support, support, support.” Then I lost sight of the fact that our students also need challenging. Look at me going back to theory. Our students need challenging, and so if I’m constantly in a place of hand holding, how will they then after graduation learn the importance of advocating for themselves?
And so I’m really big on self-advocacy as well as challenging students to like, “Hey, look now. We have to work together. I can’t want this developed more than you want it for yourself.” And so I would say that’s how my why has evolved over time. It’s gone from, “Oh my goodness, I have to do everything in my power,” to also recognizing the fact that some students aren’t just ready to do that, and that’s not a reflection of my work ethic and who I am as a professional, but I know that my door would always be open when they are ready to have those conversations and when they’re ready to be stretched as students.
Jasmine Nettles:
And for mine, and like I said, we were in grad school together so we know each other very well, in deciding to pursue a career, a higher education degree, things like that, it just happened for me. And as we started to explore the different functional areas in grad school and what the options were, I come from the background of college isn’t for everybody, but I don’t think that’s true. I think that there’s always something that you can learn in your educational experience, in your social experience living on campus, that there is something about that that’s going to connect with you, right?
Bernard Nichols:
Oh, yeah.
Jasmine Nettles:
So I have taken my understanding of meaning-making, and how I want to stay connected is to help other people be connected to what’s important to them, to what matters to them, and how do I do that? I’ve never been someone who considered myself to be a mentor or anything like that, but my goal has always been if I can get you to connect what’s important to you, you can be successful. Whether that’s educational, independent, social, community, and just overcoming and experiencing things that you may not ever have had a chance to experience. So I’m glad you talked about that, B.
And so I think to talk, I know that a part of that for you is because someone did that for you. So at Ole Miss, I know that you had the opportunity to be an RA, be an orientation leader and do these different things, but you had to be a first gen college student first. So can you talk about what that looks like maybe from your family dynamic, and how you maybe explain what you do now because of that experience to your family?
Bernard Nichols:
Oh my goodness, yes. Because we work in higher ed, and you’ve mentioned this, a lot of people think that we’re still in school.
Jasmine Nettles:
I’m talking about people keep asking me when am I going to graduate? I have two degrees. Thank you so much.
Bernard Nichols:
You’ve been to three colleges already. When are you going to be [inaudible 00:10:49]? And also just the whole thought that, “Oh my goodness, my son is an educator. My brother is a teacher.” And so when it comes down to explaining to my folks, the first thing that I emphasize is that I help students succeed outside of the classroom. Teachers focus on the academics, I focus on everything else. So helping students get involved, solving problems with roommates, to making sure that they have the support they need to stay in school and graduate. I am a guide, a mentor, and a problem solver rolled in one. So that’s how describe it.
Jasmine Nettles:
And that question is important because things can mean something to you. You can be connected, but sometimes it’s hard to explain why I have to be on call for a week at a time in case somebody needs something. Sometimes it’s hard to explain that I’m not going to be in the office Wednesday because I have to go to campus and work Saturday for the Fraternity Sorority life Organization Fair. And it’s a struggle sometimes because if people don’t see you the way that you see yourself or the way that you understand the importance of your work, sometimes that’s difficult for professionals, especially professionals our age that came out of the first COVID experience, and now with everything that’s going on in the world in general as far as higher education, it’s difficult. So I wonder if there is a moment as well where you felt grounded to this work, maybe in a burnout moment or something that it was just difficult around that time, and just tell me a little bit about it.
Bernard Nichols:
I think sometimes when you work in a helping field, you could feel like you’re doing so much and people don’t see. Because we are so occupied with making sure that the world doesn’t crumble, we don’t think that we’re being appreciated or valued as much. Remember, when I first joined the team here at Hopkins, I was coming off of a sabbatical from higher ed because I did not think that I had it in me. So I started to work here and was connecting with campus partners and rolling out for active education. I was doing so much, and within the same year, I received an award for my collaborative efforts across campus. And like, “Wow, I just got here.” And then several weeks later, I received a new professional award for the Association for Student Conduct Administration, and it’s like, “Wow, I do conduct work.”
But those two recognition events really… I feel like yes, this is the field for me, but I have to bring to the table. And students respond well to me, [inaudible 00:13:52] respond well to me. And not saying that I never had that experience anywhere else, but it was here where I feel like, you know what? I am being recognized for being the great professional that I am.
Jasmine Nettles:
And I think that the recognition is so important, especially in those uneasy times, because I was with you when you went through that transition and having to take time off and coming back, A good old Southern boy moving up to the East Coast, I just thought that was so funny, but I know how difficult that was for you and how nervous you were to settle into student conduct, because we was housing first, right? And I think that when I remember that, I think that’s so important because sometimes you’ll question yourself when you’re deciding if staying connected or staying in this space is right for you. I think if I had to do my own self-reflection and think about something that grounds me and reminds me that people see me and that people understand and respect me, when I was in grad school, I was admitted to UCA as a conditional admit, which meant I didn’t get financial aid the first semester, and I had a plan with my parents and my mom to pay my tuition.
We had a plan, but as always, in my life, the way things happened, that plan fell apart and I couldn’t afford to pay my tuition. And when I told our executive director at the time, Dr. Craig Seeger, I thought I was just telling him because I had to let him know, “I’m going to pack up. I’m going to be gone. You can bring somebody else in here to move into this apartment.” And in the midst of training, he pulled me out and him and his wife, God bless her, Lauren, who she’s passed away, they wrote a check from their personal bank account to pay for my tuition that semester. He might get mad at me when he finds out I put this on a podcast, but I remember that because he barely knew me. He knew me from my interview experience. He knew me from my on-campus and my resume and just all the things that I had done to build myself up to be in a good spot. He saw that and he poured into that.
And so I remember that experience and I think that it is my favorite thing to keep me connected to the field and just my own ambition. So recognition is a part of that too, and I love that you talked about your awards. What do you think with recognition now, especially in the new age of professional and the new things like that, how important is recognition when it comes to staying connected and baking meaning for the things that you do in this field?
Bernard Nichols:
It’s very important. Words of affirmation mean everything to people. And regardless of how folks say, “Oh, well, I’m just showing up to do my job,” everyone has that internal feeling of wanting to feel appreciated and to feel seen in value, especially coming out of an entire pandemic where we worked our ass off, and we saw a lot of folks that we know say, “You know what? I’m done.”
Jasmine Nettles:
I’m leaving. We lost a lot of people that we thought we would be in this field with together.
Bernard Nichols:
Right. I think it’s extremely important. The people that’s on the front lines, impacting the lives of students to always be recognized for their work, because we are the select few that do it. And they are here to get that degree, go to class and all of that, but outside of academics, we’re what the students got. So I think that to be intentional about recognizing the efforts that your staff members are putting in daily, that should be a no-brainer.
Jasmine Nettles:
Yeah, and I hope that as much as this conversation is for entry-level, mid-level professionals to just remember to stay connected to what they’re doing, I hope that the people who supervise them take away that from this conversation, because recognition doesn’t always have to be a big grand gesture. Sometimes recognition for your experience or your knowledge about things is making people chairs of committees, allowing them to go and get additional professional development because they saw something they were interested in, and you have the capacity to send them to do that. So I love that, B, and you are one of the people that I talk to a lot about this kind of stuff, so thank you.
And I want to make sure that we have a moment to stay connected to what we’re talking about and just end on a positive note for sure, so if there’s any advice that you would give maybe to a new professional or a middle-level professional when it comes to them staying connected to their work and how they can maybe find their own connection or explore that connection, what would you tell them?
Bernard Nichols:
Always understand what you’re why is, and know that sometimes you’re going to have to tweak that why. We don’t stay in the field because every day it’s sunshine and rainbows. We’re in this field because we’ve accepted the call to do the good work, and so you have to be in the mindset of, “What is my why and then how am I going to do that?” And so that takes constant self-reflection. That takes you taking care of yourself when things are hard, and talking to folks about it. And as far as staying connected, find you a professional home. I know that my professional home is SACSA, and now that I-
Jasmine Nettles:
It’s SACSA time, it’s SACSA time. I’m always ready for SACSA time.
Bernard Nichols:
Listen, join my community. And also, I’m a part of NCA as well, and so in order to stay connected, you have to be intentional about finding a community that’s going to build you up on those days where you’re down, because [inaudible 00:19:55]. And so if you’re going to join the field, if you’re going to work in the field, know your why, constantly refine that why. Get to the how, and find you a nice professional home. Find you some mentors and some friends outside of the field as well that you can talk to when times get rough and you need a break from it all, and use your PTO honestly.
Jasmine Nettles:
See, and that was going to be my answer to that question. Just like in relationships, you know they say sometimes you’ve got to split up to remember how much you love each other and care about each other? Your professional experience, your professional relationships work the exact same way. But I was a new professional so I will not act like I did not do it. I was someone who acted like I could not take time off. My job is really important, I have things I have to do. I can’t step away, but let me be the person if no one has told you. You don’t get PTO for it to sit there. You don’t get sick days and time off and floating holidays for you to just accumulate them. You need to use them. Take time to be away from campus.
If you’re a housing and residence life professional, you live on campus. Go away, leave campus. Either it’s go somewhere local, or if you’re not on a campus that’s in a heavily populated town, drive and go away, and take time to reconnect to who you are as an individual and stay present in the life that you’re living, because your entire career is not your entire life. And the work is going to be there when you get back. I’ll never forget when someone told me that, because you know what? You are right. It is. And so-
Bernard Nichols:
That just makes so much sense. I’m sorry. That just makes so much sense because I think it goes back to the question about what are you hoping you leave behind? So while I want folks to remember me as one who is intentional about doing the good work, I also want folks to know that I enjoyed my life.
Jasmine Nettles:
I do.
Bernard Nichols:
[inaudible 00:21:54] in a helping field, we should be known for more than that, because we have passions outside of the work that we do. So you can never lose sight of those passions. Tap into those, because that’s going to be very helpful.
Jasmine Nettles:
Yeah. And you know what? Speaking of passions outside of that, just a little fun one to throw in here. What are some things that you do outside of work, either in Baltimore or just in general, to remember who you are as an individual outside of that? I know for me, I am an usher at the Lexington Opera House. So I have always loved performing arts and theaters and dance recitals and all of the things, so getting to be able to be an usher and watch those shows and meet the cast sometimes, it is one of the most fulfilling things that I have ever started to do. I get to do it more because we’re about to be on summer break, but what about you?
Bernard Nichols:
I stay connected to all of the events here in Baltimore because there’s so much that goes on, so many opportunities to do things that you’re interested in doing. I love me a good festival. Last week was the Street Food Festiva, and had the time. So the Ravens are here, the Orioles are here, and so I like to be engaged with in the community, but outside of that, I love booking flights.
Jasmine Nettles:
And I’m usually usually in that number, period. Well, thank you so much, B. I knew that you would be the best person to have this conversation with, and thank you so much for joining me today. And to the viewers, thank y’all so much for joining us. B, can you tell the people how to find you on social media?
Bernard Nichols:
Absolutely. You can just type my name on LinkedIn and Facebook. It’s Bernard Nichols. And if you are wanting to follow me on Instagram and/or TikTok, you can find me at B_is_bold, but I will say it that I do not post much student affairs content, and so if you’re just wanting to follow the personal journey, feel free.
Jasmine Nettles:
And you can find me on social media @JasmineNettles. My Instagram is Jas.Tynae. I don’t have TikTok. I’m one of those Millennials that never bit the TikTok bug, so that’s me. And I want to make sure that my episodes feel like me and that you all learn more about me as I go through this, so something that I want to make sure I do at the end of my episode with my topics is connect it back to something that means something to me, and that’s music. And so after you’ve listened to this episode, I think some of you, if you’ve never heard this song before, it’d probably be a great one to listen to, and it’s going to be Dedication by Nipsey Hussle. So thank y’all so much again for joining. Make sure you like this video on YouTube, share it. Follow and subscribe to the podcast on all platforms, and I’ll see y’all in my next episode. Bye, y’all.
