Supporting students and staff in their spiritual and meaning-making journeys is an important but often overlooked part of residence life. In this episode of ResEdChat, Crystal sits down with Dr. Cherjanét Lenzy, Associate Provost for Student Life & Thriving at Fielding Graduate University, and they explore how housing professionals can navigate conversations around religion, spirituality, and meaning-making and build partnerships that enhance the residential experience.
Guest: Cherjanét Lenzy, Ph.D. (she/her/hers), Associate Provost for Student Life & Thriving, Fielding Graduate University
Host: Crystal Lay
Listen to the Podcast:
Watch the Video:
Show Notes:
- Teaching Spirituality in Higher Education Graduate Programs: A Duoethnography
- Commission for Spirituality, Faith, Religion & Meaning (ACPA)
- Spirituality and Religion in Higher Education (NASPA)
About ResEdChat
Roompact’s ResEdChat podcast is a platform to showcase people doing great work and talk about hot topics in residence life and college student housing. If you have a topic idea for an episode, let us know!
Transcript:
Crystal Lay:
Hello and welcome back to Roompact’s ResEdChat podcast, a platform to showcase people doing great work and talk about hot topics in residence life and college student housing. I’m your host Crystal Lay, and I use a she/her series pronouns. I really enjoy doing this podcast because I have the opportunity to talk to humans from all over the country about topics that are really important as we think about our students and staff who live on campus with us. I found that one of the topics that I wanted to delve a little deeper into was thinking about purpose and meaning making, about spirituality, about wellness. How do students really think about what it means to be in this world, whether they subscribe to religious practices, spirituality, or just the general term of meaning making. I try to think about who would be a really good person to talk about this that could give us some tips as we think about how to support students in this particular journey during this time in their life. And so with that, I found a human, and I’m so excited. I will have this person introduce themselves to us now.
Cherjanét Lenzy:
Hello everyone. I’m Dr. Cherjanét Lenzy. I use she/her pronouns. I’m currently the Associate Provost for Student Life & Thriving at Fielding Graduate University. I previously was a full-time faculty member in higher education student affairs graduate programs, and I worked in multiple areas of student success and diversity and inclusion and things of that nature. But I did get my start in housing and residence life, and so that always has a special place for me. On the spiritual side, I am a Reiki master and I recently completed training to be a Reiki master teacher. So I’m also an intuitive, a spiritual coach, and I connect to all things metaphysical or esoteric, depends on what title you like to use. And my most recent publication in this area was called Teaching Spirituality in Higher Education Programs, and it was a co-author piece that I did with Rick Montelongo. So we’re really excited about that piece. It came out in 2023 and it talks a little bit about spirituality in higher ed and using ritual and all kinds of spiritual things to support students.
Crystal Lay:
I am so happy to have you here. We met years ago, you actually were helping to put together the team that was doing some dialogue and some facilitation pieces for an ACPA effort. I think it was maybe 2015, 2014. And so I’m just really happy we stay connected and that you can share your expertise with us today. So my first question for you, what does it mean when we talk about supporting students or staff’s exploration of spirituality, religion or meaning making? When I say that to you, what does that mean?
Cherjanét Lenzy:
I think the first important thing to think about is providing space for conversation. And the reason why I say it that way is because I think sometimes when we think about spirituality and supporting students, supporting staff, that we feel like we need to be super knowledgeable and have all the right answers. And I think the first place to start is to just provide a space for conversation. So that would be the first thing I would say. I would also say being listening ears. Often we come in with our own stereotypes about what a particular spiritual practice looks like or what a particular religion practice looks like. And so we’ve kind of already come up with our story around students and around staff and the way in which they want to show up in that.
I think if we’re just a listening ear and we allow space to have dialogue around what people are experiencing and how it shows up for them, I think that’s helpful. I think often students feel like they have to show up a certain way, and so if we just provide space to have conversation, I think that’s the most important part and that’s really how we support our students and our staff in this conversation around religion and spirituality.
Crystal Lay:
I love that. So it sounds like the first place we should start is by listening. And I think there’s something that talks about we have two ears in one mouth, so figuratively or literally, this idea of just listening to where the students are and that’s the first piece of supporting them. So I want to go into what role can meaning making or spiritual exploration play in a student’s experience when they live on campus? And now I’m thinking about times of maybe there’s crisis, transition or celebration.
Cherjanét Lenzy:
I’ll answer that question by first talking about what it means for me and what in crisis. And for me, sometimes I think things can get really sporadic and you get into the moment of just fixing what’s going on. But when I tap into my spirituality, it really grounds me. It provides a space of re-centering and reflecting and rethinking. It allows me to kind of figure out how to approach whatever’s in front of me. And so I think the same is true for students is it can be a space for them to really even just reflect about how they’re feeling about what’s going on. If we’re talking about what’s going on in the world right now, providing a space to think about our meaning making, our spiritual practices really allow us to think about, well, how do I even understand what’s going on in the world and what does my spiritual practice teach me about what’s going on and how I want to interact with others?
And sometimes it’s also just a space for not getting distracted. I think when you tap into your own practices, it allows you to really think about, maybe I’m getting overwhelmed and maybe I’m pulling too much into this processing, but what does my spiritual practice teach me? And if I get centered, I can really have a better understanding of what’s in front of me. So it can provide a space of stress relief sometimes in a way, it can provide a space of recognizing the ancestral lineage that you come from and that you’ve already been through, whatever you are going through now you’ve already been through it and you’ve come through it before. So your spiritual practice really gives you that strength and that power to push on.
Crystal Lay:
So I hear grounding, accessing maybe this ancestral piece or like you said, I’ve gone through this before. I know I can do this again. So I really like that idea of what does my practices tell me? How can I move through this? How do I make sense of the world? So with that, because I can understand that, that makes sense to me. What’s my go-to, how-to to navigate the world? And with that, on the flip side, I think there might be some misconceptions that folks have when you hear spirituality or religion. And those are both different terms too. We might even lump them together. But what are some misconceptions that you feel are common as we think about spirituality and religion?
Cherjanét Lenzy:
I think even just what you just said that is a huge misconception is that spirituality and religion are often conflated. So I think that’s one piece. And I think that there’s a thought that you have to be religious in order to be spiritual. And if you’re spiritual, you’re religious. And those don’t necessarily have to be true, it is for some folks. But I think some things that we miss is that we are all innate spiritual beings, or at least I have that belief that we all spiritual beings. We all have the ability to tap into our inner self and understand our higher power and our higher selves. And we all have that ability. And I think sometimes we think that it’s outside of us.
And so I think, at least for me, it makes me feel a little bit more connected to my spirituality when I think that it’s within myself and I don’t have to know the language. I don’t have to know the right verses or the right textbook to use. I can have my own connection without necessarily connecting to an organized religion. And that’s not to say that religion isn’t important. It is for those folks who find peace in there and find connection there, but you can do those separately or together. And so I would say that’s probably one of the biggest misconceptions is that spirituality is always tied to a religious practice and it may not be.
Crystal Lay:
I really like that idea of how do you separate that out, and then this idea of finding purpose, inner versus purpose outer and what that… That could be a really fascinating conversation I think to have, two humans sit down and talk about how that plays out. I might also know some folks who are raised in households where you don’t talk about religion, you don’t talk about money, you don’t talk about politics. And so I wonder that could also, maybe not a misconception, but more so an openness or willingness because of how you’ve been raised of whether or not you even engage in something, that sounds like it could be fascinating. So with that idea of where people are coming from and how they engage with this topic, when you think about residence life or housing staff, are there ways that we can create inclusive environments that respect and celebrate a wide range of spiritual or religious identities without unintentionally promoting or excluding a particular group?
Cherjanét Lenzy:
When I think about that, it makes me kind of think about… Tap back into my time when I was in Res Life and I think about some of the programs that we might’ve done around religion and spirituality, and they tend to really focus on a particular practice or doctrine. And so I think one of the ways to be more inclusive is to just have a conversation around where are folks spiritually, generally. And so it allows the space for more conversation to be there and to not limit because there are probably religions and practices that folks have that we are not even aware of. And so I think providing a space to just, again, like I was saying earlier, to have conversation and providing an open dialogue is probably really important. I also think about just kind of even having the conversation around meaning making more so than even feeling like you have to say spirituality and religion, because even those folks who maybe don’t find themselves connected to a spiritual practice or connecting to a religion, everyone has a moral compass and values.
And so how are your moral compass and your values teaching you how to show up and how to interact with others? So providing a conversation that allows us to really dive deep into who we are as people. And again, going back to that self-reflection processing and thinking about the conversation in this more, maybe top heavy, higher 360 view, if you wanted to say, looking down at instead of having a very specific conversation. I think that that provides more space for everyone to show up in the conversation. And it also allows us to really see where are the connections. I think we also think that religions don’t connect. And I think there are some guiding principles that are very similar across different religion practices and different spiritual practices. And when we have a more open dialogue, we can see those connections. We can see that maybe at our core we have some very common values. And so having this conversation in a more open-ended way provides space for more folks to show up.
Crystal Lay:
And what’s interesting is how do you create that open space for folks to show up? Because I’ve seen the places where it’s all or nothing. We’ll go around and talk to every community member and say, what do you celebrate? We’ll do that. I feel like that’s inclusive. What do you celebrate? And also, okay, if those folks don’t live in this community, is there a way to educate you on other things or ways of being? And then I’ve seen the nothing, we won’t do anything at all. And I think that’s the… Is that considered exclusion? We won’t celebrate anything, we won’t do anything. We don’t want to offend anyone. And so we just suppress it and don’t engage in topics. I’ve also seen the, oh, this is not a Christmas tree, it’s a holiday tree, so we’ll just change the name of it.
And so I don’t know if there’s a right way, but I think there are ways that are not helpful. But I like this idea of how do you find the best way to have open space for folks to engage in meaningful and intentional ways around this particular part of their identity?
Cherjanét Lenzy:
I think something that’s also really important to think about in this conversation of providing open space is to also think about, you might get it wrong and that’s all right. But what do you do with the feedback that you receive about said thing that didn’t go right? And so maybe it is you have a passive program of some sort where you have utilized the good old-fashioned bulletin board because I loved bulletin boards back in the day. And you use the bulletin board to have it be a space that folks walk by and write things around how they’re feeling, how they’re thinking, what’s the meaning that they’re making around what’s going on in our world and providing those open spaces.
And then also, like I said, being okay with that. You’re going to make mistakes. You’re not going to get it right. It’s impossible to know absolutely everything. But the important part is what do you do with the feedback when someone says, “Hey, that was offensive.” Do you run away from that conversation and just keep doing what you were always doing? Or do you think and have a conversation, well, how could we have done this differently? And really use that in a way to educate ourselves. And I think that’s the beauty of Residence Life is that you can have this community learning and this constant continual community learning together.
Crystal Lay:
So I want to go a little more practical with you. So let’s say you have a student staff member. So you’re the hall director, pick your supervisory position, and you have a staff member who says, “Hey, I know programmatically I have to have this topic, or I need to have this one-on-one, or this student stopped in my office and they want to talk about religion, but I was raised where we don’t talk about that or I identify in this way and I’m really uncomfortable engaging in this conversation.” How would you respond to that team member? How should we coach folks through that? Because I think it could be any ism or any identity where someone might say, “I’m uncomfortable.” However, my belief is that in the work there are going to be uncomfortable moments. How do we talk them through the thing and support that human in the moment? So what are your thoughts? How would you respond to a team member that said, “This is just not my thing, I don’t think I can do it?”
Cherjanét Lenzy:
I would say that’s a great space to have collaboration where you bring someone else who maybe is a little more comfortable and you collaborate together and you work through that together. And then I would also say is to think about those other spaces when you’re uncomfortable because there are… Having a conversation around this isn’t probably the only space where you might be uncomfortable, but our jobs often require us to being engaged in a lot of things that we don’t really resonate with and don’t connect with. And again, is this a space for us to show up in a space of learning? And we don’t always have to facilitate and lead everything, but can we show up in a space of learning? And so with that collaborative effort that you do, maybe you show up in this space saying, “This is an uncomfortable conversation for me, but I realize that it’s valuable, so I’m here to learn and I collaborated with someone who can bring this other perspective.”
So thinking about how can you still be engaged in the conversation and still have the conversation. And take care of yourself because I don’t think we want to put anybody in a space that causes damage to them. But what are the ways that we can enter the conversation and show up? And even expressing the conversation of why it’s uncomfortable, I think it’s really valuable because there’s someone else in the room who probably is equally uncomfortable too. And just being able to provide the space for all of it.
Because that to me is the conversation around spirituality and religion is the uncomfortableness of it, the beauty of it, the peace part of it. It’s all part of the conversation. And I think that’s valuable because especially when you’re thinking about this conversation as meaning making and reflection, all of those things are important to help someone process and think through their own understanding. Because I think when we limit it to, you just need to talk about how you show up in it, it doesn’t allow space for someone who’s still trying to figure it out to have the questions that they need to process. So all of that is valuable.
Crystal Lay:
And it goes to the piece about you don’t have to know everything. And so we can’t know everything. And although in residence life and housing we are expected or seen as generalist. We touch a little bit of everything. I think how do we reach out and ask for help and make those connection points. So the collaboration pieces, are there partnerships that you think we should naturally have as departments? I think about some campuses have an interfaith office, maybe there’s a local faith community or maybe the counseling center too. What are some partnerships that are crucial, like these are must have or you highly recommend we should be cultivating as housing professionals for this identity area?
Cherjanét Lenzy:
Absolutely. I think definitely what some of those places that you mentioned, obviously if you have some type of religion, faith practice on your college campus that you should be connected and have collaborations with those folks as well as things that are locally. But I would also say is to think creatively about those connections to you because not every religion and spiritual practice has a church type place or has an organization. So how can we think more uniquely and creatively about some of those collaborations? And so I would think about some folks… I know for myself, a lot of things that are metaphysical practices are connected to more wellness spaces. So there are a lot of local places that might do yoga and also will do Reiki and also will do tarot and also do some of those pieces. So those might be spaces to think about collaborative. Thinking about well-being, and like you said, connecting to your counseling center.
There is a large movement within psychology to start to include certain metaphysical practices in therapy. So thinking about some folks will use Reiki or use mindfulness or somatic practice in the context of therapy, and that can also be used and be connected to some folks spiritual practice. So think about some of those maybe non-traditional spaces as well that might be good for collaboration and thinking about how we can support our students in a really more global way to kind of think about what are those other spaces outside of just traditional religious spaces. And of course those traditional spaces are really valuable and really important, but not everyone connects to those things.
Crystal Lay:
When you mentioned yoga, I’m like, that makes sense. And as someone who subscribes to an organized religion, my first thought might be, “Oh, you want to come check out my church?” And they might be like, “No.” And so I think about, like you said, the wellness programs or centers on your campus, the rec center, because there’s a lot of cool outdoor nature trips that we do too. So what are some… I’m like, is there a guide or something that the department can put together? So it’s like options that are not just thinking about or leaning into these practices that may or may not be inclusive of all of our folks and where they’re at.
And then also not assuming that folks are set in their path either. This is a really cool moment for students to explore and maybe based on how they will socialize, they may think this one thing or they may have done this thing because that’s what they did at home and they’re excited to come to college and learn and try out some different and cool things. And what a great entry for them if they have a menu of options to figure out who they are and who they want to be.
Cherjanét Lenzy:
Absolutely.
Crystal Lay:
Okay, so you mentioned doing Reiki, and I would love to know more about that because I know the word, I can spell it, but I don’t know much else. And so I think this is a really cool learning moment if you’re open to that. So my question would be what’s the tradition or ritual or a small practice, spiritual or not that you do that helps you? So I’m talking about you now, helps you ground during a busy week, but then also curious to know a little bit more about Reiki if you’re open.
Cherjanét Lenzy:
Sure. So I’ll start with Reiki and I’ll come back to the other part. So Reiki is a Japanese healing technique. There are a couple of different types of Reiki and so it depends on who you interact with, how Reiki connects for you. But we talk about using Reiki as it’s a universal healing technique. And so the thing that I kind of connected to is… I was raised Christian and was brought up Christian. So if someone is familiar with the Christian practices, we would’ve called it laying hands on. So it’s kind of that similar practice where you’re tapping into chakras and you’re tapping into everyone’s energy field for a space of healing, stress relief, things of that nature. And it’s a beautiful practice that I won’t get into the huge, huge history about it, but I love talking about Reiki, but I found it kind of randomly and it just kept calling to me.
And so that’s where I found a connection to it. And for me, once I learned Reiki, it really opened me up spiritually and opened me up to connecting to energy and things of that nature and spirit and connection and understanding ancestor connection and things of that nature. So that’s a little bit about Reiki. I don’t know if that completely explains it. If you ever get a chance to experience Reiki, it’s wonderful.
But as far as things that I do to kind of connect and center myself when I’m at work or whatever, sometimes it is Reiki, you can do personal Reiki and take a moment and do Reiki and call in Reiki for yourself and kind of give yourself some stress relief and calm. What I did right before this podcast was I went and did meditation for a few moments, sat down and just had a moment because I needed it. And that is something I often do. I often keep crystals with me and I have this crystal here that I rub throughout the day when I’m getting a little stressed out. And so all those things kind of keep me grounded, keep me centered. And they started with Reiki, but it’s really a big expansive thing.
Crystal Lay:
Thanks for explaining that and I want to do my own research, because I think that’s important too, not to put all that on you to teach me all the pieces.
Cherjanét Lenzy:
Absolutely.
Crystal Lay:
But when we were prepping right before, you were so calm and so peaceful and I was like ahhh. So I was able to really feed off that energy and be like, Crystal, breathe. And so I really love that I was able to be a recipient of your comic energy as we started our time together. So thank you for that. So I guess my next question for you would be what’s one of the most unexpected or memorable moments that you’ve had when you were supporting a student or a staff member around spirituality or meaning making on campus?
Cherjanét Lenzy:
Wow, there’s been a few that have really surprised me. I think the one that’s really sticking out for me is I was working with a student who came in to talk to me about just the struggles that they were having with classes and not doing so great or not doing as well as they wanted. And I could tell that they were really stressed and just kind of all over the place in their conversation. And I’m always careful in the way in which I engage. And I was gathering that they had some non-traditional ways of thinking about spirituality, but I didn’t want to make an assumption. And so I just kind of said, “Have you ever done meditation? Have you ever meditated? Is that something that really connects with you?” And they had said it didn’t really work for them before. And I said, “Well, why don’t we go do a walking meditation? Why don’t we just go outside right now and do a walking meditation?”
And so we spent the rest of our time together just outside walking and observing the birds and the trees. And I know that sounds kind of hokey for some people, but it was a calming moment for him to not be so… It didn’t have to be a regimented way of getting it done, but just taking a walk and taking a breath and taking a moment of pause and to think about something that we don’t even think about can be a way to kind of center ourselves, really helped him. And then he continued to come back to me a lot and talked about other types of spirituality and found out we had… We aligned in many other ways, but really it was kind of surprising for me because I don’t normally suggest that we go take a walk, but it just felt like it was right in the moment.
Crystal Lay:
Thanks for sharing that and for doing that for that student. I think it’s, like you said, exposing them or asking the question of, have you ever thought about this or have you tried this? Or would you be open to it? And I imagine the amount of trust and respect that human had for you to engage and try it. And so I think that’s a testament to how you set that person up or how you made them feel in that moment as well.
I think about those times where you need to calm your body or you’re going through something catastrophic on the high end or you’re just exhausted or you’re just at this, I call it the pit of despair. Everything feels like it’s falling apart. And so what do you tap into to again, ground yourself and bring yourself back to the knowing that it’s going to be okay, maybe not in this moment, but it can be okay? And what a cool practice for the student to go out and be in the world with someone that they trusted to start a new habit or get them to see this thing they tried before in a different light.
So I want to think about, for housing professionals who are viewing this or listening to this, what is one thing, a small thing that you think they can do starting tomorrow to maybe help them support meaning making or spiritual exploration in their community? What’s something that feels like, here’s a start if you’re interested but you’re a little stuck, what’s something you could start tomorrow to start supporting this particular identity in your community or in their community?
Cherjanét Lenzy:
I think it’s important to first understand how you feel and how you show up before you can support others. I think you need to understand your own personal self. So I would say the first thing to do is maybe just start with some journaling and writing down and thinking about how do I even feel about this topic? And even if that’s positive or negative or whatever that is, to just kind of free write and think about what are those things and explore it in that way. And think about what in the community would help you answer and resolve some of those pieces that you’ve come up with in your own free writing. What are those things?
I think that… It’s just when I think about when we talk about diversity and social justice, training and things like that, you have to first understand who you are and understand how you show up before you can do something for someone else. And I think spirituality is a part of that conversation. And if you don’t understand where you are, it’s kind of sometimes hard to have that conversation with someone else and be vulnerable and be honest if you haven’t explored yourself first. So I think that’s really important is to start that process, is to think about yourself first and then you’re able to kind of open up and create those spaces for other folks too.
Crystal Lay:
That’s good. It’s the I work, like who am I? And I don’t think you wake up one day and I am fully self actualized. I know who I am. It’s definitely a journey. And I don’t know a lot of 18 year olds who are like, yes, this is who I am. I’m fully… Or 44 year olds either. So I think I like that piece about the journaling, sitting with yourself and thinking about what does this topic mean to me as a human? And then how do I engage with others? And then how does it show up on a more global scale or even within my local community?
I wonder if folks have not done that work and the student just pops up in their office, is there a question… Like that back pocket, I like to have a back pocket thing. If I’m ever caught off guard, what’s the back pocket thing I can say or be ready for if something just takes me by surprise? Like a student pops in, “Hey, I was raised Buddhist, but now I think I want to be Christian. I don’t know what my family’s going to say. Or I was raised X, Y, Z and now I’m not sure what I believe. What do I do?” And you’re like, “Oh, I’ve never broached this.” Is there a question or do you have a back pocket, here’s the thing I’m going to say?
Cherjanét Lenzy:
Yeah, I don’t, but there was maybe some pieces, some guides. So the reason why I say I don’t is because I don’t want people to feel like it’s a formulaic conversation. Because it really depends on what someone’s bringing to you and the emotion with which they’re bringing it. Because I think when someone shows up and they’re in this space of, I’m really thinking about, it means they probably have been thinking about it way longer than when they just walked in. They have been processing it for a long time and they just got the courage to now enter this conversation. So I would maybe just be thinking more about the not having an end result, in that you’re just guiding the conversation.
So if someone were to come to me and be in that space, well, tell me more about that. Why do you think that way? What about your current religious practice isn’t resonating for you anymore? Why do you think something else will do that for you? Have you explored all these different options or did you just narrow it down to these two? And I don’t feel like you have to have an answer, but have the questions. Be really in the spirit of inquiring and trying to figure out, well, I’m really intrigued by this. Tell me more about that. How did that happen? And if you feel comfortable sharing your own personal journey. I often do that with students because I think it breaks down a barrier often. You really didn’t get connected to spirituality in the way that I understand it now until my late 30s, early 40s. And that is in more things are still opening up to me the deeper I get into spirituality and my own understanding of myself.
And you had said earlier, 18 to 20 year olds are still trying to figure themselves out. Yeah, I’m trying to figure myself out and who I was in my 20s is totally different than who I am right now. But if you’re open to say, I was in that space too, I was really questioning my spirituality as well, and this is what I did to try to figure it out for myself. Or I started to ask these questions or why don’t you just maybe try to see what’s on campus? Maybe is there a inter varsity Christian fellowship? Maybe just go to one of their meetings. I know I did that in undergrad. Go to their meetings and see if it resonates, if it doesn’t, try something else. But really not necessarily feel like you have to have an end result that you’re trying to get them to, yes, I’m going to pursue this path, or no, I’m not. But just more being a space of providing the questions and allowing them to kind of just think out loud with you.
Crystal Lay:
That’s beautiful because it’s space and it’s listening. That’s where we started, right?
Cherjanét Lenzy:
Right.
Crystal Lay:
You’re like, [inaudible 00:34:42] space, you’re listening, and you’re curious.
Cherjanét Lenzy:
Right. Absolutely.
Crystal Lay:
Okay. And yeah, it shouldn’t be formulaic. You don’t want to pull out their scripts. So let me go to my question number one. Because that doesn’t feel authentic and real and it’s okay to not know. And I think you’ve said that several times. We’re going to mess up and to know where you sit, it sounds like definitely an appropriate first step. So we’re at the end of our time. Now, here’s what I want to say. We went through thousands of years of making sense of the world in a few minutes as we think about spirituality, religion, meaning making. We can’t cover all that. There’s whole graduate programs. You taught a whole class on it. You wrote an article. We can’t get to it in this time we’ve had. And is there anything that is missing where it’s like, I just want to hit this thing home and no is a complete sentence, that is fine. But before we leave our time, is there anything where you’re like, this is important to think about for this particular area?
Cherjanét Lenzy:
I think I’ll just say again that thinking about things without the needed structure. So really spending time on just… Really honing in on that conversation around meaning making. How are you making sense of your world? How are you understanding who you are as a person? How are you understanding your innate power and where that resonates from? And if you spend time really thinking about where do I get my understanding and my lessons and where do I get my, who Cherjanét is? And how Cherjanét shows up as Cherjanét?
There’s something at that core. And when you spend time peeling away those different layers and thinking about that, at the core, you’ll be able to see what spirituality can be for you, should be for you or maybe should not be for you. And just really trying to not have to give it a name right away until you’re sure. And then if you are sure, how do you then still make sure that you are being authentic to yourself and showing up in that and spending the time that you need to connect to the practices that you need to grow deeper in your own faith.
Crystal Lay:
Thank you. Cherjanét, my hope is that housing professionals take that and say, “Who are the campus partners that can help us create these opportunities for our students to start to work through that question for themselves?” I think that would be really amazing. So are there resources that you would recommend if folks want to learn more about this topic?
Cherjanét Lenzy:
I don’t want to give a specific doctrine because I feel like there’s so many things. I would say to do your own research and start thinking about some of the things that resonate for you. I don’t want to put any one thing out there. I will share as I did in the beginning, the article that we wrote on Teaching Spirituality in Higher Education, that could be a place to just think about some different ways of thinking about religion. My co-author has a background in Catholicism, and so we had a very interesting conversation because we’re in two different spaces.
But I would really say to think about what resonates for you and find the things that align with that. Because I definitely have a list of certain books that I’ve read and some of those connected and some of those didn’t. But it’s really a personal journey, and I think you have to see what resonates for you. There’s been things that folks have recommended to me and I read it and I’m like, that ain’t do nothing for me. So I don’t want to put something like that out. But I would say again, go spend the time to journal and reflect and to think about who you are and how you’re showing up, and then that’ll lead you to the right resources.
Crystal Lay:
I love that. Consistency throughout our entire time together. I appreciate that about you so much. So we will add the article, the link to the article so folks could check that out if they want to see that. So this was such a great conversation. Lots of good information, lots of reflection. I know I’m going to do for myself. Thank you for joining me today.
Cherjanét Lenzy:
Thank you so much for having me. This has been really awesome. I wish we had more time because I had so much to talk about.
Crystal Lay:
And everyone, thanks for joining us on this episode of ResEdChat. If you have an idea of a topic or person that you’ll like us to have on the show, please let us know by reaching out to Roompact. Take care.
