In this episode of Roompact’s ResEdChat, Crystal connects with Dr. Heather French, Associate Vice President and Dean of Students at San José State University, to discuss what AVPs need from Housing leaders. Heather shares how clear communication and trust can help leaders advocate for Housing at the senior level.
Guest: Heather French (she/her), Associate Vice President and Dean of Students, San Jose State University
Host: Crystal Lay
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Roompact’s ResEdChat podcast is a platform to showcase people doing great work and talk about hot topics in residence life and college student housing. If you have a topic idea for an episode, let us know!
Transcript:
Crystal Lay:
Hello and welcome to another episode of Roompact’s ResEd Chat podcast, where we highlight cool people who do cool things in residence life and college student housing. I’m your host, Crystal Lay, and I use a she/her series pronouns. So in my current role, I’m a senior director for student housing and residential life. And I have found that no matter what campus I go to in a directorship, it’s always important for me to think about how I want to tell the story of my department. It’s also important for me to remember that I might not be at every table where someone is talking about my department, but the person who’s most likely to be there, my supervisor.
So on your campus, you might have an AVP that you report to, a dean of students, an AVC, maybe an executive director. It can really vary. But at the end of the day, I wanted to think about how can I make sure that folks knew what to share, what should be talked about when those folks are in those spaces, thinking about or talking about some pretty significant things as it relates to housing, residence life, campus living, whatever you may call it. And so I looked through my contacts and I thought, who better to talk about this, give me some insight into what an AVP would need to share or might need to know about residence life than one of my closest friends? And I’m so excited that she was available to join us. And with that, I’ll have her introduce herself.
Heather French:
Thank you so much, Crystal. I’m excited to be here with you today. Hi everyone. My name is Heather French. I use she and her pronouns and I currently serve as the AVP and Dean of Students at San Jose State University. I’ve been in the field for almost three decades, hard to believe. And a really significant period of that time was working in housing and residence life. So I often say that’s how I grew up in the field and I’d love to spend some time talking with you about those intersections between the work that you all are doing and also how it’s important for us to communicate with those in more senior leadership roles around the table.
Crystal Lay:
Thank you. Thank you so much, Heather, for being here. So let’s get to our first question that I have. When I was preparing for this conversation, I was like, okay, every AVP is different. And so I also thought housing has no shortage of data. When you think about occupancy, budget, staffing, conduct, facility, student experience, all the things. What information or metrics do you want as an AVP? What do you want to see regularly? And then what are some things that maybe can stay within a department, maybe you don’t need to know on a regular basis?
Heather French:
Yeah, definitely having access to data is going to make me feel comfortable, more comfortable. I can breathe a little easier. So some of the things that are going to be helpful for me to know on a semi-regular or semi-semesterly, quarterly basis, obviously things like your occupancy reports, understanding if there are trends in issues around facilities or with conduct or with cares or emergency situations. So those sort of trends and numbers are going to be really helpful. I would also be wanting to look at if there are things regarding staffing and personnel and the impact that that has on your work. So also looking at some of that data, whether it’s turnover data, whether it’s things around onboarding, the hiring process. So really thinking more, not just about the numbers of who’s living in the halls, but also about the team that’s supporting those folks.
Crystal Lay:
So it sounds like trends or data that really connect to the impact on the student or staff experience, right?
Heather French:
Absolutely.
Crystal Lay:
Okay. Super helpful. So you shared in your intro that you’re a former housing and residence life professional. And so do you believe that that former experience influences the way that you oversee and support housing now that you’re an AVP?
Heather French:
100%. I love everyone that I work with. I just want to say that. I love everyone that I work with, and I will always have a really soft spot in my heart for our housing and residence life professionals because I understand so closely the work that you do. And this was my entry point into the field. This is how I really gained a passion for this work of serving college students. I also have a level of sensitivity to the all-encompassing nature of the work that these are often the people, that are very much on the front lines, that this is also the space where our students are either at their most comfortable and the most safe space of home, or it can be a place that is an incredibly challenging place for them to feel safe and at home. So really thinking about the dynamics there of both what it’s like for the staff in housing and residence life, but also the students. It’s incredibly impactful all around for both staff and students.
So I do think about that a lot. I think about it even, I engage with RAs. We’re just coming into the fall semester, so had an opportunity to meet with the RAs several times as part of their training and just sharing with them my gratitude for the work that they’re doing, for our returners to be stepping back into that role, to really be recognizing the heart work that goes into this, the time commitment, the effort, the impact that they have on shaping their fellow peers’ experience. So I am certain that my own experience starting from when I was an undergrad as an RA and then all those years that I spent as live-in hall coordinators and then also supervising housing and residence life as part of my portfolio, it absolutely influences the way that I engage and think about the work.
Crystal Lay:
I really appreciate that answer because there’s something different about living in or living on. There’s this idea of being on 24/7 or your life is just exposed in so many different ways when you live amongst the students. And so it’s helpful to know, and not that folks can’t have some understanding of it, but there’s a deeper level of understanding when you’ve had that experience for yourself. And so thanks for sharing that. I want to now talk about crisis response, and you also have the DOS, I call it the combination. So you also have the Dean of Students piece, but I’m wondering in your role, so housing leaders, we’re always navigating these emerging issues and things that can become larger issues. So how would you want or how do you recommend a housing leader communicate risk or emerging concerns or issues without everything feeling like it’s a five alarm fire?
Heather French:
I appreciate that because I know there are plenty of fires to put out on a daily basis. I do work really closely. So housing currently is not in my portfolio. It has been at many other institutions, just the current institution I’m at and the role that I’m in, they are very close partners and we work almost on a daily basis together because all of the students of concern, behavioral intervention, conduct pieces that intersect with housing and residence life fall in the Dean of Students unit. So I really appreciate having open lines of communication. The way that I frame it is if there are police or paramedics or flashing lights involved, I would really love a heads-up, those high level cases. Anything that’s going to escalate to the president’s office, the chancellor’s office or involve a legal matter, any sort of heads-up there, those are the ones that are going to be most helpful for us to have very timely communication.
And one of the things that we have right now, again, I don’t oversee this functional area, but I am still on a chat thread so that if these things are coming up after hours, I am looped in automatically because we know that if it’s happening in your world, it’s going to be coming across my desk too. So those are things that have been super helpful is to have that in real time communication around those very large scale, maybe five alarm issues.
Crystal Lay:
And I wonder, how do we navigate this idea of, and I want to talk about the same topic, but the power dynamics. At each level it’s like, “Okay, the student was transported because they had a stomach ache, and do I text my supervisor at 3:00 AM who has to text their supervisor?” Can you talk a little bit about that tension maybe that some folks have maybe experienced or felt of, “Do I wake Heather up or not and share this incident?” Does that question make sense?
Heather French:
Yeah, I think it does. And that’s certainly going to be unique perhaps from school to school or department to department. And it has shifted a little bit for myself as well, depending on, again, those institutional dynamics. But myself as a professional, I would much more so want to know, and I really try to convey to the folks that I am working closely with that always default to sharing more information. It’s not going to be an issue for me because I would rather be able to walk into work that next morning with having that information than being caught off guard or blindsided or the first thing that I encounter is a parent in my office and not having the context. So it is something that we have to negotiate as much as we can upfront and build that trust and relationship so folks know that it’s okay to communicate that information.
But I recognize too that it could depend potentially on whether it’s the on-call structure or the campus culture in terms of whether it’s MPP level or manager level, sorry for the lingo, manager level that are only supposed to communicate with one another after hours, whatever that campus culture is, of course, we have to take that into account. But really for me, it’s always been that I default to wanting to know more and that doesn’t matter what time that is for me, just so that I’m more prepared.
Crystal Lay:
So in your response, I’m hearing a little bit of protocol, procedure, institutional needs, wants from that direct person in the role. I also heard pieces of trust in there. And so as we think about trust more broadly in the work and in leadership, what helps you develop trust in a housing leader when you’ve had that, oversaw them in the past or even now, to the point where you feel that you can confidently advocate for them in their department with cabinet or the president or other senior leaders?
Heather French:
Absolutely. I think there are a few things that come to mind. One is when there are these, I’ll use your phrase, the five alarm fires or those major emergencies, they’re not only coming to me to keep me informed, but they’re coming already with possible solutions or steps that they’ve taken. They’re informing me about, “This happened and these are the actions that have occurred thus far.” It’s really instilling in me that confidence in their presence and ability to navigate those challenges as they come up. That does though, back to the trust piece, to me, it’s so much based on our ongoing working relationship. So that is the foundation. And then there’s the ability then to have that really natural and seamless flow of communication because you already have that foundation of relationship established.
But that’s the first thing that comes to mind is sharing what the crisis situation may be and what those direct action items are that someone has already implemented or tried, and then letting me know what other type of support is needed, whether it’s that I need to help clear the pathway for some additional work that needs to happen or there’s resources that are needed or just strategizing. Could that be another way to help is just strategizing some possible solutions.
The other thing that I think about that instills that confidence and makes me think, “Okay, this is a person that I trust being at the table even if I’m not there,” is knowing and seeing their ability to engage at sometimes a high level with other campus leaders. So being able to share the story about your department, being able to step in and elevate concerns or identify needs even if you’re among a table of other senior leaders. So those sorts of things are definitely going to instill confidence when I see that the leaders I’m working with are comfortable or at least confident in navigating those relationships with other key campus partners.
Crystal Lay:
I love that example. I’ve had to present to cabinet a couple of times, and what’s in my mind is not only do I make my department look good and we’re sharing the pieces that are necessary, I also want my boss to look good. And so those conversations, the relationship building to have that trust is so paramount to having those opportunities too where you’re at more tables to tell the story. So I really, really appreciate that. And I’m taking some notes for myself too, maybe some conversations or questions I want to ask my leadership after this conversation. So peeking behind the curtain, for other housing directors, what do you wish, and I don’t want to make you speak for all AVPs, but what’s something you wish housing and residence life leaders would tell you, show you, or bring to your attention before you have to ask for it?
Heather French:
That’s a good question. Well, I don’t know what I don’t know. And I really recognize too that I am at least a few steps removed from the pulse of students on the ground. So if there are things that are emerging, whether it’s whispers of discontent or there are student issues that are emerging that even if you have a hunch or an inclination that there’s going to be some sort of swell of student, I’ll say, whether it’s around complaints or concerns, things that students are wanting to see that they feel administration is not responding to favorably or in the way that they want or in a timely manner, I don’t always know that because I’m not in those spaces. So anything like that, that on the ground awareness of what the current climate is among our residents would be super helpful.
And then of course, back to some of the direct coordination and collaboration around emergencies, any of those, like the flashing lights cases, the ones that involve police, paramedics that are going to rise to the level of our president, the chancellor’s office, legal counsel, any of those things, I’m going to find out about them anyway, I would love it to come from my colleagues from housing and residence life.
Crystal Lay:
Thank you. So going back to your background in housing and residence life, Heather, what have you come to understand differently about the work now that you’re overseeing it or have oversaw it from the AVP level? And I want to give you that question with, I’ve found the longer I’m in the profession, the older I get, I realize that I probably don’t know a lot, meaning I’m aware of there’s this bigger picture that I may not have all the pieces to. And so I don’t know if that’s comparable because we hold different roles and sit at different places at our respective universities, but that’s what I’ve found for myself being in the profession and also sitting in the senior directorship is there’s a lot I don’t know and I’m okay with that. And what are the right questions to get the information I need to support my department? And for you more so, again, as someone who’s no longer in housing and residential life, how has that come up for you in your role?
Heather French:
So what kinds of things might I not have daily access to that I am looking for from my housing and residence life colleagues? Maybe help me reframe that a little bit.
Crystal Lay:
So more so now that you have a different vantage point, I think in housing and residence life, there’s things that we think we might know or we have assumptions about, and now that you have this different vantage point, what might you see differently as an AVP now?
Heather French:
Thank you. Thank you. Oh, okay. Okay, I think about this from a few different lenses. One is in terms of institutional politics, and maybe I’ll come back to that, but the other in the area where my brain went first is about the impact on the staff that are doing the work. I knew, and you and many other people that might be listening or watching, that this work is all encompassing, especially for those live-on professionals, because it is very difficult to find that separation sometimes between work and personal life.
So I think having that sense of the nuance and the very specific and complex nature of that sort of housing and residence life role, I think a lot about how am I doing outreach, care, and support for this team to encourage their sense of balance to, not to overuse the term, but really thinking about that self-care aspect and also helping them to identify their own pathways for professional growth. Because I think sometimes too, thinking back to my own experience, I was many years as a live-in staff member and I didn’t necessarily see how that professional growth trajectory was going to look for me at the time. So I do think a lot about that from the perspective of supporting staff in housing and residence life as having gone through that experience myself.
Now as an AVP and where I sit and back to the politics issue, I am much more aware of the larger picture at the institution, everything from how decisions or policies that might get passed down to us as staff members to implement, we don’t always have the many other layers of conversations and decisions that have gone into that. I also recognize that sometimes we get handed directives that we may not have the resources or personnel to feel like we can adequately perform, but we’re still expected to.
So I think it’s both and it’s understanding that when the staff are feeling that sense of that they don’t have agency because they’re being asked to do something or told to do something, sometimes that is true and empathizing with that sense of maybe it’s frustration or exhaustion or whatever it is. And then likewise, sometimes the staff might feel frustrated at decisions, but they are just not privy to the many layers of conversations and decisions that have come in between the information they’re getting and where that originated. So it’s both/and. I’m thinking of it from the individual perspective and the larger institutional political perspective.
Crystal Lay:
I can definitely appreciate those two pieces that you shared. The politics, again, it’s the pieces of the puzzle. My viewpoint might be 20,000 feet, yours might be 30 or 45, and there’s a lot of space in between there. And so I think it goes back to the trust that you talked about earlier. So as you were talking, I thought back to your answer you gave about when you were able to connect with your RAs during training and thank them. I’m curious about, do you have a favorite housing or residence life tradition or event or something you’ve seen where no matter where you are, you’re like, “Please invite me to that thing that you do in housing.”
Heather French:
I love that. I love that. And there’s actually a lot. I always want to be a part of the move in experience because there’s such excitement from the students, from the families, and there’s excitement, and I’ll say lots of emotion. And also being a parent of an adult student, I can really connect with folks when they’re feeling that sense of overwhelm or just strong emotion about leaving their students at college, all those sorts of things. So I always want to be a part of that experience.
I also love the fun stuff. I love whether it’s Halloween programming, whether it’s end of year banquets, whether there are opportunities to, in my current institution, partner with housing and residence life to develop our own traditions. So this is our second year between my office and housing and residence life of doing donuts with the Dean. So once a month during the fall and spring semester, I host just pop-up events in the residential community where we’re just having donuts and coffee, and it’s an opportunity for students to engage with an administrator where they may not have had that opportunity before on a campus that’s fairly large. So those sorts of things where we’re just finding fun ways to collaborate and meet with students. I love that too.
Crystal Lay:
I might have to borrow that. We’re really good about that in residence life. We just take all the things. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, so Heather, my last question for you. For folks who want to learn more about being an AVP with residence life and/or housing in their portfolio or housing leaders who want to better understand the AVP perspective, where do you recommend they start?
Heather French:
I’m going to talk a little bit about the professional associations, and you might have to cut me off because I could talk on and on about this. I am sure that for many of your viewers that the ACUHO-I community has been a great resource, and I always will stand behind that. I am also a huge proponent, especially as you are considering maybe branching out to think about a professional trajectory that is outside of or encompassing housing and residence life as part of a portfolio, I would really recommend if you’re not already considering membership in either NASPA or ACPA.
Sometimes campuses might have a campus membership to one or the other. I personally have a professional membership in both organizations, and I have been involved in volunteer leadership in both organizations, although probably more of my time has been spent in NASPA just for whatever reason. But I think either of those, NASPA or ACPA, are going to be great places to broaden your perspective on the breadth of student affairs work, how all of this really interconnects with housing and residence life, because these are the students that live where they go to school. It also is going to broaden your network for professional purposes, the number of folks that you can call on for sound advice and resources.
And the last thing I would say is years ago when I was myself considering professional advancement in the field, I went to an aspiring institute and had the opportunity to sit with a senior professional who is helping review some of my past experiences, going over my resume and saying, “Great, you’ve now been able to work in a few different functional areas within student affairs. You’ve gained supervision skills, you’re doing budget management, all that’s looking great, but what are you doing to give back to the profession?” And it really struck me as thinking about, “Okay, how am I helping to also prepare and support the next generation of professionals in the field?” So for me, that’s another piece of it, is it is giving back and whether it’s through mentoring, volunteership, whether it’s through being a sponsor or champion for a colleague, it’s really thinking about how are we giving back in the field too. So that’s all part of my answer, I think, about resources. I think about those professional associations and how you can get more involved.
Crystal Lay:
I will definitely add those to the show notes. And I just want to say, you inspire me with your work and having this senior role for myself, I really look to, I’m like, “Okay, Heather’s doing some great things and how do I push and challenge myself to also seek out some different opportunities?” And so I just want to name that, that you’re a really great inspiration and resource, and your work is felt so far with what you do in student affairs. So I am so grateful that other folks, through this medium, are able to experience the wisdom and the things that you share with us today. So thank you so much.
Heather French:
Thank you so much, Crystal. It has been so great connecting with you in this way, and I look forward to our ongoing collaboration.
Crystal Lay:
Yes. And everyone, thank you so much for tuning in. If you have an idea for a person or a topic that you would like us to have here, please reach out to us at Roompact and we would love to feature them. Take care.
