On this episode of ResEdChat, join our host Noah Montague and guest Ben Williams as they talk about the needs of residential LGBTQIA+ students and the role of Residence Life Staff in supporting this population. While no student population is a monolith, especially when we are talking about marginalized students; LGBTQIA+ students have unique situations, supports, and joys that are crucial to consider and unpack, especially for live in staff. Join Ben and Noah as they explore these, share stories of their own experiences, and provide practical advice to Residence Life Staff.
Guest: Benjamin Williams (He/Him), Associate Dean of Students & Deputy Title IX Coordinator
Host: Noah Montague
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Roompact’s ResEdChat podcast is a platform to showcase people doing great work and talk about hot topics in residence life and college student housing. If you have a topic idea for an episode, let us know!
Transcript:
Noah Montague:
Welcome back to Roompact’s ResEd Chat podcast, a platform to showcase people doing great work and talk about hot topics in Residence Life and college student housing. So my name is Noah Montague and I use he/him/his pronouns, and today I’m going to be your host. Those of you that have maybe been watching my content for a little bit now, I like to say that I’m a storyteller by trade, and these stories that I choose to tell center the student and the college student experience in general, which makes me all the more excited to talk about today’s topic, which today we are going to be talking about strategies for supporting LGBTQIA+ students in college housing. This is a topic that is near and dear to my heart, thinking about my own identities and experiences, both as an RA, as a full-time staff member in Residence Life, and just as a person in life. This is a topic that’s very near and dear to my heart, thinking about those spaces that I choose to occupy professionally and personally.
And today’s guest with that has a wide range of experience, particularly in this topic today, which makes me so excited to welcome them today. So I’m going to turn it over to our guest to let them introduce themself.
Benjamin Williams:
Thanks, Noah. I’m excited to be here. So hi, I’m Ben Williams. I use he/him pronouns. I’m the associate dean of students and deputy Title IX coordinator at Trinity University, which is a small private liberal arts residential campus. And for me, I, just as a queer person and as a person who’s worked with you and been in spaces, I’m excited about this conversation. I’m excited about thinking about belonging. There’s this quote that I love mainly because I’m a Brene Brown girly, and I’ve never described myself as a girly, I think, before. So we’re breaking boundaries, barriers, I don’t know, something. But she says, “If I get to be me, I belong. If I have to be like you, I fit in.” And I think as we start to think about the residential experience and experiences in housing for our LGBTQIA+ students, there’s a lot of pieces there, both just by the nature of physical spaces, but also just with policies, processes, community and homes. So excited for the conversation.
Noah Montague:
You and me both. I’m so glad that you brought up Brene Brown to begin with here too, because she is one that we have talked about before. Whether you described yourself as a girly previously or not, I am glad that she’s already making her way into the conversation, thinking about community and belonging and the physical spaces we occupy and how that transitions into personal individual belonging. But I think with that, we’ll hop right into our first question today that I want us to be thinking about. And I do think it’s important, within the context of this question to note, that no student group is a monolith, especially when we’re talking about marginalized populations. But I do want to begin with asking in thinking about LGBTQIA+ students, what are some unique challenges or experiences that you have seen come up with this population when it comes to living in residence halls?
Benjamin Williams:
And I think what I’ll note here at the start is that I am a big advocate for housing residential life professionals. I’ve never been one myself. I was never a hall director, but I’ve spent the last several years partnering with folks in some meaningful ways. And so, what I think is important, there’s I think three forks that are important to acknowledge here. The first and foremost is, especially in this current moment politically, as we think about regulations around transgender and non-binary students’ access to physical space that is affirming of their gender where they can feel comfortable, everything from gender-inclusive housing to access to bathrooms are critically important things for us to think about, especially because if we look at Maslow’s hierarchy of needs and Strayhorn’s theory of belonging and how he talks about sense of belonging, there’s some fundamental pieces that we need to have met. And if we are not getting some of those met, that creates a challenge.
This I think also touches on the second part of the fork, which is what does it mean to foster belonging for LGBTQ collegians across states where there isn’t support. In the state where I work, an institution has just banned discussions of transgender issues, period. And so, as we think about discourse, as we think about the erosion of spaces like gender and sexuality centers, residential life then has a really important place to play in that because, if we think about space where people go to find community, some of these offices that used to provide that are going away and going away quickly. And so, folks like you who are residence directors then have this challenge to how do you cultivate some of that space in the building, even when you might be restricted about how you do it.
And I think the final thing that I would add, because I think it’s not unique to our LGBTQ+ collegians, but it is important is the mental health challenges that we’re facing in this moment. We are seeing the national concerns around mental health. We are seeing suicide attempt rates with LGBTQ collegians increasing when they were already higher than their heterosexual counterparts. That same is especially true for our transgender and non-binary students. And so, when we look at what are the physical spaces, what are the spaces for community, and what are the mental health challenges that are facing our LGBTQ+ students specifically, there’s a lot of opportunity, especially from some of my personal research around how we can foster spaces and community. That’s what speaks for me. How does that resonate for you as a day-to-day res life person?
Noah Montague:
I could not agree more, particularly in your comments around… It is a disservice, in my opinion, to not be acknowledging what is happening in the world around us. I often talk to my staff and to my students just in general, again, and to quote you also in what I’m allowed to say and how I’m allowed to say it and thinking about those stipulations and regulations that allow me to continue to work and also our students are struggling with what is happening because things that happen in the world impact students. I’ll often say that anything that can happen to a student can happen while they’re living in a residence hall, which then takes a different step when we’re dealing with laws and regulations and things coming into play and conversations happening above students, outside of students, not including students about the onus over their own identity and whether or not they’re deserving of that space has become some of that conversation, which gets even more complicated when I have students coming into my own office and being like, “How do I justify my experience when I’m being told I’m wrong around me?”
And that in and of itself, I think is maybe more of a unique experience when it comes to supporting queer and trans and otherwise LGBQI+ students in that I think there’s a lot of pain that is existing within a community that then, due to your own conversation about some offices changing and regulations changing, is falling on other offices and spaces, particularly Residence Life. And that we are one of the main offices tasked with creating that sense of belonging in that they do physically live here, going back to Brene Brown with physical living place and belonging, creating that sense of that space and what that looks like. But I truly couldn’t agree with you more on what that is actually looking like in the residence halls and that all of those things are popping up for me on a regular basis, I would even say.
Benjamin Williams:
And it’s interesting, and one through line that I just want to tug on a little bit, because I think it’s important and would be disingenuous to not acknowledge in this moment is the compliance piece. And so, you kind of made reference to the who and the how of what you say things is real, and I talk about that all the time. And part of it is because, for me, me being in the seats that I’m in allows for different advocacy and those kind of things.
Benjamin Williams:
Also, I have a really high tolerance for and belief in free speech that also sometimes becomes hateful speech, and we can acknowledge both of those things. And the institutional response… One of the things that I found to be really important from my dissertation research, which I just completed, is that-
Noah Montague:
Congratulations.
Benjamin Williams:
Thanks for making it… Complicit compliance comes up. And I think I will say that we have a responsibility to comply with the laws, but we can also be compassionate. We can also show care. It doesn’t mean that if the law in state of X says this is what it is, then yes, that’s what we have to enforce that is, but there are still spaces and ways for us to show compassion and care. And I think that becomes one of the superpowers when I think about folks in Residential Life, I’m a generalist who never worked in Residence Life. Residential Life coordinators, whatever they’re called, wherever you work, that’s-
Noah Montague:
Whatever acronym we’re talking about.
Benjamin Williams:
That’s one of the core generalist functions because it’s care, it’s programming, it’s crisis management, it’s facility stuff, it’s all of these pieces. And when we think about the needs of LGBTQ collegians in this moment, being a compassionate and caring human is critical. And I think it just, in that moment, felt really important to at least acknowledge that part. That, yes, we’re going to have to make some hard choices and do some things we might not agree with, but that also doesn’t have to diminish how we care and show up for students, which I appreciate in you and I think in a lot of folks as we think about the community that we’re trying to cultivate in residence halls and across campuses.
Noah Montague:
For sure. And I think that already starts to answer my next question a little bit as well, and thinking about that care and compassion and what that looks like, particularly in Residence Life, but what other roles maybe… Or maybe if you want to talk a little bit more about that answer, particularly, what role does housing play in making LGBTQIA+ students feel a sense of belonging on campus?
Benjamin Williams:
So I think one of the most important things, and it varies based on what students need, but I think one of the constants that I’ve seen, both in the research that exists, the research I just did, is that having supportive “registered adults”, and I used air quotes there because there are days where I’m like, “I’m 35, but I don’t know if I’m a registered adult yet.” I should be, but I don’t know if-
Noah Montague:
Dissertation done. I think you’ve earned that title by now.
Benjamin Williams:
I guess. But I think having supportive people, having people who validate your existence, to your point, we have folks who are literally trying to erase the fact that queer and trans people exist, that LGBTQ+ folks exist. And so, I think one of the most important protective factors for belonging is having someone who you can turn to where you feel validated and supported. And so, I think that is a key part of it. I would love to say a part of that support is having visible representation of affirmations for LGBTQ folks. I also know that, in some states where people are listening to this, that would be a violation of their state law.
And I’m not going to make a comment on how I feel about that, but what I will say is that it then gives us and folks a challenge to think about, how can I continue to show up, how can I support, and how can I be affirming? And so, I’m always very open about the fact that I’m a queer administrator and that using my voice in that way. I think for folks who are allies, allyship, ally in my mind is a verb, not a noun. It’s not a cute thing you get to claim to be like, “Yay, gay.” It is a commitment you’re making to showing up and supporting. And so, I think for folks who are in housing who are allies, really thinking about how do they center that, how do they support that? When we think about then the broader pieces, you may not be able to have a gender-inclusive restroom in your building based on your state laws.
You can have resources in your office about where gender-inclusive or single-stall restrooms are on your campus because there’s still needs for those to exist. And so, I think it becomes about how do we navigate complying and supporting what is the law that we have to follow while also making sure that we’re showing up for and with students. I also think being present at events matters. As student orgs take on more of the heavy lifting in states that used to be done by professional staff, even just showing up for National Coming Out Day or something like that, that is a way that we can show up and be one of those responsible adults who people can see as caring.
Noah Montague:
Definitely. I think that, for me, living and working in the residence halls and seeing students on a daily basis, I agree with everything you said, in particular, just the emphasis on care and validation and what that looks like for LGBTQ students in the place that they live. Because the amount of students that I see who, for a lack of better way to put it, and unfortunately didn’t have that in their home previously, whether it not be fully, whether it be in part, and to come to college and then live in an affirming space, that might be the first time that some of our students have ever experienced that. And I see it, thinking about a couple of my students in particular, whenever a student chooses to come out to me, we have a conversation about that. I thank them for feeling comfortable enough with me to be vulnerable in that space.
And I do think that myself being a queer administrator also helps with that comfort level. And to the allies listening that work in showing up is crucial to Ben’s own point in that students see you, whether it be in your residence hall or elsewhere, they see who is coming to things and they see who is not. And keeping that in mind in students are going to choose to show up in the way that they feel most comfortable with you. And our job, particularly in Residence Life, is to be somebody worth feeling comfortable enough to be themselves with, because that is the job, is empower them to figure out who they are because so much of housing in particular is them learning what is important to them in their personal life, what they value, how they interact with other people. And identity is crucial in that space. So we have to be people that students can be comfortable coming to.
And that is compassion, that is care, that is listening, that is asking questions when we don’t know the answer and looking them up ourselves. I think often about, I supervised a grad student in the past who was entering student affairs and very passionate about the field, and queerness and leadership work is something that’s very important to me. And I’m very upfront about that in every fabric of what I do at my institution. And we were able to create a space where she felt comfortable enough with me as me being a queer person for her to come to me and say, “This is an area that I feel like I’m not doing what I should be doing in. I want to do better at supporting LGBTQ students. Do you have any advice? I know you’ve said that you’re open to talking about it.”
And after I went home and cried, because that was such an important, impactful moment in supervision for me, but I think I realized that not only did I create a space where this student felt safe coming to me to talk about this, but this was a staff member who was asking questions and wanted to learn more. And I think that that is the role of housing because we are generalists and learning more and advocating and empowering students to advocate for themselves is our job. And I think about that constantly within this conversation.
Benjamin Williams:
Absolutely. And I think one of the things that I will share here, because I think it’s a nice addition to that is that also knowing where folks’ roles start and end. I sometimes see, especially newer professionals, now that I’m not in that category, I guess, which is a whole nother conversation we could have sometimes-
Noah Montague:
That’s another podcast.
Benjamin Williams:
Is knowing that you cannot be all things to everyone. And so knowing when it’s really helpful to make that referral over to someone like me in the Dean of Students’ office or walking a student over to counseling and getting those other pieces. Because one of the things that I deeply appreciate and I think is a cornerstone of housing and Residence Life as a profession within Student Affairs is the care that exists. People who go into this work want to show up, and sometimes I think it’s important to emphasize that the way you can best sometimes show up for a student is by showing them the resources that can help them and knowing where our line ends. I’m not a clinician. My doctorate is in education policy studies. My work is as a non-clinical case manager. It’s understanding how we can support those things and then leveraging those partnerships, which I think is what I appreciate about being able to have this conversation as a non-housing person who values the work deeply is that that partnership and those synergies is also how we can support the work. Totally.
Noah Montague:
Knowing when it is time and needed to hand a student off to another office, to another person, to a counselor, if and when that is necessary, because I’m also not a counselor and Residence Life staff are not counselors. So thinking about when that needs to happen is properly supporting that student as well. So I appreciate that point.
I think with that then, thinking about both the limitations and opportunity and what that care looks like in supporting LGBTQI students, how can we better prepare staff, whether it be RAs, whether it be full-time staff, how can we better prepare housing staff to support this population?
Benjamin Williams:
So this is something that I think about a lot and I’m trying to reconcile in this moment because part of me wants to be like, “Well, cultural competency training and safe zone training and those things.” And I also know those things are different and how they can be accessed in this moment are different. And so, then I start to think about, “Well, in some ways, let’s zoom out and think about LGBTQIA+ students, but also just think about how we can do this for all students,” which will inevitably benefit the students that really need it the most.
And so it starts to me thinking about intergroup dialogue as a concept, which is really about how do we engage in conversation to deepen our understanding of each other? So Noah, you and I have had lots of conversations as colleagues and friends around what makes us tick and how we engage. And I think preparing RAs to have conversations around what does it mean when someone does? You shared this beautiful story of a staff member who’s willing to share that they aren’t as comfortable or familiar and need that support. I think we both can also speak of instances where we had a student or even a colleague come to us and then come out and how you honor that space and how you thank them and show gratitude.
I thinking about how we would role play some of those scenarios with staff, and you can provide a lot of examples. What if a student comes to you and shares that they are struggling with their identity as an LGBTQ person or as a conservative person on a certain campus or as a person of color or someone who is reconciling what it means to be a white person for the first time. We can do this work with some fundamental skills around how we engage and support by building some of that into our training when we think about capacity building for even conflict resolution or when we think about how do we build some skillsets to help an RA navigate some of those conversations? You all are already doing that work in so many different ways.
What I think we have to be more intentional about now is thinking about what does that look like and how do we support people in doing that in a way that’s caring and thoughtful? And what are those supports that exist on a campus to help facilitate that? I think to flip the script a little bit, one of the things I’d be curious to hear your perspective on, Noah, in that regard is what has that looked like or what has worked really well for you in navigating those pieces?
Noah Montague:
Funnily enough, you mentioning intergroup dialogue, my department this year after I piloted this idea with my living learning community last year is that we did constructive dialogue, which is an opportunity that students at my school have to really enter into this space of what does it look like to disagree and how do we navigate disagreement between experiences, between whether those experience be identity-based, whether they be cultural-based, what does that look like and how do we navigate that safely and respectfully? And we piloted that last year with some of my living learning community, and it went amazingly. Students were able to learn from each other, engage and normalize difference and disagreement in such a fascinating way.
My department has been leaning very heavily into that idea of how do we promote healthy disagreement? And I’m seeing that, to your own point, then shuffle down into some other conversations, whether it be students talking about identity as those questions come up about like, “Where do your values come from?” And sharing that out in small groups and having those conversations. I did with my students, then we actually did it this year with all 300 of our residence assistants [inaudible 00:24:56] campus. After doing it during our professional staff training, we all went through that process together with our teams. So myself and my colleagues reflected and talked about our values and how our own experiences play into those and navigated disagreement and had those conversations. And then we led that same conversation for our residence assistants when they got here for training.
I watched that be incredibly impactful and important, especially in the conversation that we’re having, again, not to do the disservice of not mentioning the world around us and things going on, in that this was something that we were encouraged and allowed to do and has continue and will continue to, in that this training and constructive dialogue focuses on disagreement, but also on all students and support and what that looks like across different experiences. And that is something that I’ve seen be amazingly effective in normalizing conversation about difference with students because we’re finding… And I’m sure you can agree with me on this, more and more students are hesitant to have conversations across any kind of difference, even whether it be… I was talking to a colleague earlier today that I believe it was last year, maybe a year prior, I had a student whose roommate stole $100 headphones from him, and rather than stirring the boat, having a conversation, he went, “I would rather just let them go than confront that that happened.”
And that’s something that I think about a lot because we were talking about resilience and anxiety today as a department, and that’s where that story came up. But we also did also talk about identity and where that comes into play and what it looks like for different student groups to experience a school differently. And that was a conversation that we had today that I also think is an answer to your question in and of itself is what have I seen be effective? And I really just think at the end of the day, it’s talking about it.
Benjamin Williams:
Yeah, 100%.
Noah Montague:
Having those conversations, I lean away from saying that conversations about identity are difficult in that, for marginalized folks, they often are a regular part of life and they need to happen. So leaning into those conversations in departments and normalizing that, I think is where I’ve seen it be the most effective.
Benjamin Williams:
Yeah, 100%. I love that. And I love that idea because a lot of it is about, maybe we can’t do this one thing anymore, but what are the core skills and what are we trying to accomplish and how will that pay dividends? So love, love, love all of it.
Noah Montague:
It was so effective. And honestly, my RAs left that and went, “I didn’t think I would get anything out of this, but I feel safer here than I did previously.” And that in and of itself, and that’s not even me exaggerating, that’s me quoting one of my staff. Leaving that training, I knew in that moment that we did something that was worthwhile. And I think that has been sticking with me, both in this conversation and in general, thinking about things that we can do leaning into what were we trying to do to your…
Benjamin Williams:
Yeah, 100%.
Noah Montague:
I think then, moving into another question, flipping the script a little bit again maybe, but we’ve been really getting into these stories and experiences and I’ve shared a couple, you shared a couple, but I’d love to see if you could share a story from your time working with LGBTQ students that maybe sticks with you, whether it be recently, a while back, if there’s a story that sticks with you that you’d want to share here.
Benjamin Williams:
There’s some really heartbreaking ones and there’s some really beautiful ones. This isn’t the story I’ll share, but I was working at Georgia Tech when the president of our LGBTQ organization completed suicide by police officer, and that was a really challenging moment. And out of it came some really beautiful and deeply sad changes. We saw investments happen, we saw all sorts of pieces. And the reason I entry there as I start to think about a specific story that I want to share is that we’ve got to think about the way that our stories and processes build challenges to student belonging.
As part of my dissertation study, which I just completed, I reconnected with a student who I’d supported in a professional role a couple years before where they were struggling with some really deep mental health challenges as they were trying to navigate who they are, who they wanted to be, who their parents expected them to be. And I came out when I was 16, and it was a different time then. Marriage equality wasn’t a thing, but it wasn’t what it is today either. It’s almost like saying the quiet part out loud, which I’m an advocate of in pushing us to be better. Some people saying some things that aren’t even just the quiet part, they’re the most hateful, harmful part out loud, which poses some challenges.
And so, when I think about this student and how I’ve seen them evolve over several years, they were in this place where they were very externally defined, their family wasn’t creating space for them, their family wasn’t supporting them. And then, they had a moment where they connected with a staff member that just validated them fully. And they were then willing, even with a deep amount of fear and concern, both about the financial ramifications, but also the personal ramifications of what does it mean for them to come out as a non-binary person, as a queer person on campus. And what then I saw was this beautiful impact of one caring voice that turned into multiple caring voices that then carried this student from a point where I would’ve ranked them pretty high on the risk scale that I use in my day-to-day work of assessing the threat students are to themselves or others to come to this place where they have this deeply grounded understanding of who they are and have found their community and all of these different pieces.
And the reason I use that example in context of one of the saddest moments of my career at Georgia Tech with some deep sadness and pain for the LGBTQ+ community is that it shows the power of engagement, of care, of showing up and of students’ journey that they’re going through. So when I think about the deepest moment, it is this, “I found a person who cared about me and valued me.” And I interviewed 20 students in my dissertation, and all of them at least spoke to one person who had done that for them. Some spoke to multiple. At a mid-sized liberal arts institution in the Midwest, it was a pretty toxic community and space for LGBTQ students. And so, it was really important that they had multiple people to support them because the campus environment overall didn’t. And then, at a large research institution in the South, those students were being affirmed multiple ways in multiple places, which then just furthered their sense of belonging.
And so, as we think about supporting and caring for students, let’s never forget the impact of these small moments, which is just like, “Hey, I love that pin on your backpack.” Which I had multiple students in my dissertation study mention a student or a staff member commenting on this rainbow pin or the non-binary flag or whatever on their backpack being a really affirming moment that made them feel like they belong to very directly showing up and caring for them at events and all these different places. And so I think there is a layering that occurs on our campus between their experience in the residence hall, their experience in the student activities office, their experience with administrators, their experience in the classroom. The more we can create space where those layers are positive, the better.
Where we don’t is then where we come into issues where students choose to leave. And there’s a real economic cost to that that I don’t think should guide the conversation, but is an important thing to acknowledge. I’m not going to pay you X thousands of dollars to be in a space that I don’t belong. And so, what I love about that student specifically and their story is that it shows the power of that.
I also just want to acknowledge that belonging is not stagnant. You can belong in one space and not in others. You can belong in one moment and then feel like you don’t. I think especially as some of our students who choose to do a visible transition as part of owning their identities, there are sometimes where spaces they used to feel comfortable they no longer because they’re afraid of what being outed as a trans person could mean on their campus. And there’s a tension that we have to be able to acknowledge there about how we support students and how that support maybe needs to shift over time, which I think I, at the end, went on three very different little forks in my own road. So that would be my answer.
Noah Montague:
No, no, I appreciate that answer for so many different reasons in that I asked you for one story and you told so, so, so many, and I appreciate you feeling comfortable sharing what you did.
Benjamin Williams:
I’m also bad at following instructions, so we just kind of roll through it. Nut no, I appreciate that.
Noah Montague:
I feel we’re doing our best that we possibly can, and that’s allowed to be enough.
Benjamin Williams:
One hundred percent.
Noah Montague:
But I think for me, and thinking about your answers, plural, to that question and my own experience in working with students, I also have really high highs and really low lows in working with some of my students, particularly LGBTQ students. One story that’s really coming to mind, I’ll try to stick with one, I’ll see if I can. But a few years ago, I had a student who, while they were living in my community, they came out as non-binary, and then they came out as a trans man, and that experience continued to change for them in the halls as their identity evolved and they came into an understanding more of who he is and who they were and what that looked like for them. To your own point, they underwent medical transition and we talked regularly in that I actually met with that student weekly.
They asked if that would be okay just to touch base, and I had that time in my schedule. Not every housing staff does. And at my current institution, we do regular one-on-ones with students as a part of our regular role. So I was able to utilize my role in that way and that I’m already expected to meet with students regularly, and this is a student that feels safe with me and wants to talk about this experience of transitioning with me, so yes, I will do that. I’m happy to be that person and connect you to other resources if and when this no longer feels like my role. I was able to meet with that student weekly for most of a semester, and then, they actually ended up applying for leadership opportunities on campus after that regular conversation, and I was able to watch them build confidence a little more as they came into themself.
And I tell that part of the story more so in that the actual most meaningful part of this was that they ended up quitting that leadership opportunity and they came to me to talk about it when they decided it. And I don’t think I’ll ever forget it in that he said, “This experience, I’m so grateful for it because I learned that this type of leadership is not where I see myself going.” And to have this student, one, who previously had been very uncomfortable and quiet and anxious about having any conversation with me as they figured out who they were, they knew that they wanted to talk to me about it, but it took a while to really get into any kind of real conversation, to this student telling me no later on to something that they thought they wanted. And he wasn’t afraid to no longer want it. He wasn’t afraid to tell me that he didn’t want to do the thing regardless of the fact that I nominated him for it, that I wrote his recommendation, that he got it.
He wasn’t afraid of repercussions coming out of that situation. He trusted me and trusted himself and what they wanted enough to know that that experience wasn’t for them. And I think that that maybe is an interesting example and one that many professionals might not think of and that that is a… Even with students, and I had a meeting with a student earlier today who said that we talked about where his own capacity was with the environment he was in and the engagements he was in and the clubs he was in. And I was like, “Where does care for you come into this space? Because I’m hearing you tell me that you’re in seven clubs, you’re a little bit overwhelmed, you have two minors and a major. Where does care come for you?”
And he upfront said, “It doesn’t. I don’t have time for myself and I don’t want to quit anything and let anybody down.” And we had a longer conversation about that, but the student that I’m specifically talking to wasn’t afraid of that. He knew himself and what he wanted enough to say, “This is not what I want to do.” And that, I think, will stick with me for a very, very, very long time in watching that student go from figuring out who he was to being confident enough in himself to make a pretty significant decision, because it also involved losing a scholarship to leave this opportunity. And it wasn’t for them, and he knew himself enough to figure that out, and that one sticks with me a bit.
Benjamin Williams:
So I will note two things. One, you did bring two students up.
Noah Montague:
I did. I did. I did try my best.
Benjamin Williams:
But I think what I love about your example is this idea that, one, I think it shows that it’s not about ego of us, it’s about who we serve and what serves them best. And I think that’s an important thing for everyone, not just those in housing and residence life to-
Noah Montague:
Sure.
Benjamin Williams:
Think about, but especially, it’s not about us, it’s about them. I think the other part is that I think it’s a good practice maybe in our own self-care is to take a moment and reflect on who are those students of the semester as it comes to a close each year that we can really think of? I have a Post-it note in my wallet of students that I’m concerned about. I’ve had that practice for a while, but I also, I think I need to make more space to think about that and think about the beautiful celebrations of what has come to be. And that’s a benefit of the investment that we all make.
Noah Montague:
Definitely. Definitely. I think with that, Ben, that gets me perfectly into our last question for today. And what might be a piece of tangible advice that you might offer to new professionals about supporting LGBTQ students? Let’s take it back out of the stores and the theory and what might be a piece of tangible advice you’d give to folks looking to better work with better support and better care for our LGBTQIA+ students?
Benjamin Williams:
I had this moment just now, I was staring off. So my office looks out over downtown San Antonio, and there’s a real power in that question that you asked. And this is half me really trying to think about what I want to say and half just doing the thing that I do, which is to say that I think part of me just wants to say do something. I think sometimes people get in their own heads and get in their own way. So let’s take all of whatever you learned in your grad program, whatever you learn or think or whatever or the thing that you’re afraid of and just show up.
I use this phrase that I show up for and with students. I show up for them in the administrative spaces that I occupy and with them in all the everyday moments that I can. And so, I think when I think about supporting our LGBTQ+ collegians, just at the core it’s, just be present, be a decent human, show care. And I think you should do that for all students. But I think especially when we think about our LGBTQ+ students, everyone has their own journey to walk. I can think about several who I’m supporting in this moment who they have said nothing to me about being part of this community. And I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s where this engagement ends, but it is deeply powerful and impactful for a student to just feel seen and heard as a whole person.
And so, I think where that maybe lands me as the advice is, show up and create space for students to be all the beautiful, wonderful parts of themselves and do that for yourself as well. One of the things, the most powerful, I think, insight from my research is the idea that queer and trans students want to belong, not just as an LGBTQIA+ person, but as a person who is more than their gender identity or sexual orientation, who is more than just this one part, though a meaningful part, of who they are and a part that’s currently under attack. The Human Rights Campaign has declared a national state of emergency for LGBTQ folks. And so, making space to show up and allow people to come as they are, be as they are.
And some might say, “Okay, well, I do that every day.” Cool, keep doing it. If you’re an ally, remember that that’s a verb, not a noun. It’s not something that you claim. It’s something that folks like me and others who are part of the community give to you, and there’s an honor in that. If you’re supporting students who are struggling, show up for them. All of these things, which is much less a specific tangible, but is very much the, if you can show care for the person who’s sitting across from you or the person you see sitting alone in the lobby, that can go farther than you could imagine.
The last story I’ll share, I promise, is there is a student in my dissertation study who talks about this moment that they had a faculty member just walk past them in this lobby space of an academic building or the student center and say “hi”. And that was a moment where they feel that they deeply belong as an LGBTQ collegian. Someone just said “hi” in a lobby. This isn’t rocket science. It’s important, but it is the everyday ways that we show up and show care. And so let’s do that and let’s invest in how we care for ourselves so that we can show up and do that for students. That is my mic drop moment.
Noah Montague:
And I love that, every part of what you just said, even up to the mic drop, particularly your point about that hi mattering so much of that student and what it means to acknowledge a student that is used to being disregarded, whether it be academically, whether it be systemically, whether it be legally in the conversations that we’re talking about. And I imagine that acknowledgement meant the world to that person and that they told you it did. That’s going to stick with me coming out of this, I think.
But the only other piece of tangible advice that I think I would give thinking about my own experience, I agree with care, I agree with showing up, I agree. We’ve talked a lot about students see us, where we choose to go and where we choose to inhabit and what we choose to think about and talk about and engage with, and whether it be other staff or allies. I also loved your point about that everybody has their own path. I didn’t come out until I was 22. I did not understand that aspect of myself until later, and some of our students are still figuring that out too. So I think acknowledging that in the conversations that we’re having, doing our own research is huge and not expecting students to teach us about their own identities is, I think, the last thing that I would offer to this space.
But Ben, thank you so much for being here with me today. I hope you had a good time talking-
Benjamin Williams:
It was great.
Noah Montague:
And engaging. And thank you all listening and watching for joining us on today’s episode of ResEd Chat. If you have an idea or a topic or a person that you would like us to have on the show, please let us know by reaching out to Roompact. And as always, please keep taking care of yourself and enjoy the rest of your day. Bye-bye.
