In this episode of Roompact’s ResEdChat, Donovan Cyrus joins Jas to chat about making the leap into a mid-level role in housing and residence life earlier than most. Whether you’re considering an early move up or mentoring someone who is, this conversation will offer insights and practical advice on breaking through perceived career timelines in student affairs.
Guest: Donovan Cyrus (he/him), Associate Director of Residence Life for Leadership, Recruitment, and Training, Eastern Kentucky University
Host: Jasmine Nettles
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Roompact’s ResEdChat podcast is a platform to showcase people doing great work and talk about hot topics in residence life and college student housing. If you have a topic idea for an episode, let us know!
Transcript:
Jasmine Nettles:
Hey y’all. What’s up? Welcome to another episode of the Roompact ResEd Chat podcast. If you’re new here, I’m Jazz Nettles, one of your hosts. And if you’re not new here, welcome back. Today I want us to talk a little bit about accelerating our careers before we may have anticipated or thought that that’s what the timeline would be. We all know that sometimes positions just fall in our lap or the dream job opens up at the least opportune time. So, my guest today, I would like for him to introduce himself and just tell us a little bit about what drew you to the housing and residence life functional area in general.
Donovan Cyrus:
Thank you Jas for having me today. Hey y’all. I’m Donovan Cyrus. I work at Eastern Kentucky University in housing residence life as one of our associate directors for residence life but I specifically work with our leadership recruitment and training initiatives with students. What initially drew me to wanting to work in housing and res life, I think like many of us, we started as some student staff member or involved in some organization tied to housing and found this career of student affairs. And that’s what happened for me as well, being an RA and then actually while I was an RA, I got to become a senior RA and serve as a co-supervisor with a full-time. And I just really enjoyed working with the student leader aspect and being involved with them. And I was like, “I can make a career out of this.”
So I ended up going to grad school and being in student affairs, a student affairs program. And then I became a full-time professional coordinator in housing residence life and just really enjoyed working with students and really being part of that student staff experience. And what really drew me to wanting to do what I do now in the career that I have is really helping them become the student leaders they are and preparing them for those next steps as their future careers or being part of these different groups such as working with them in NRHH or in RHA, like students who want to further develop and grow and help them gain those skills and knowledges. So that’s where the recruitment and training side of what I get to do in my role really flourished for me. And that’s how I found myself in this career.
Jasmine Nettles:
Yeah. And just knowing about you and your trajectory and things like that I know that the person who occupies the student staff recruitment training selection, that is the person usually that spends the most face time with our student staff. So I know you and I, we call them our kids and stuff like that, but I know that that is an intense connection that maybe some other crisis and front desk or even curriculum LOCs and stuff while we engage with them, it’s a very different type of connection for you I know. And relationship building is very, very important. And so you obviously were full-time for about … You did it for about two and a half years, right? Maybe three.
Donovan Cyrus:
Yeah. Two and a half years to three.
Jasmine Nettles:
So the job opens up at EKU initially because I know the timeline. So can you talk a little bit about the timeline for deciding to actually apply?
Donovan Cyrus:
Yeah. When I decided to apply, I was not actively looking for a job. I was not looking for another place. I just knew that my next step was really wanting to be with the student staff in those capacities. From the moment of talking to them about being in recruitment selection and having them apply and working with them through that process to then actually having them there all 130, sometimes 230 once the desk staff are here, having them all here and seeing them from that start to finish and then getting to work with him for a whole year and getting to see the new staff develop, getting to see the returners now taking on different roles or working in a different building and seeing what skills and stuff they get from it. And so that’s really how I moved into that realm is I knew I wanted to work in that side of housing [inaudible 00:03:58] residence side. And the role that opened up exactly did that. That was truly what this role is set for is that student-staff experience.
And so at the time I was like, “Well, I’ll see what happens. I’ll apply.” I don’t know. It’s an associate director position. Usually at some places you have to be an assistant director and then move to an associate. But I just was like, “You know what, I have nothing to lose. I’m not at a place where I’m trying to move up right now.” I wasn’t a place where I was happy so I was like, “You know what, let’s see what happens. This seems like it could be a good fit.” And just based off of the interviews and getting to talk with people, it seemed like a really good fit for me to move to and I felt like I was ready enough to take on that role. And so that’s what led me into that applying to this role.
Jasmine Nettles:
Yeah. And I know when we talk about timeline and just how it works, this position opened a year before it reopened a second time. And can you talk about maybe who you met and what the conversation was like when you met her at the conference when our job was open the first time?
Donovan Cyrus:
Yeah. So I was actually at a conference at school that I was working at and met someone who was an associate director here for conduct and care in desk operations. And we just were talking. And this was actually a year before I applied to the job. It would’ve been the summer of 2022 is when this was. I was talking with one of the other associate directors from EKU, and at the time I was a coordinator and they’re like, “You should apply. You seem like you could talk about the student experience. It seems like you have some knowledge and understanding of what we’re looking for. You should apply.” And at first I was like, “Well, I’ve only been a coordinator for a year. I just don’t know if that’s really where I’m ready to go yet.” And I feel like I still had a lot to learn and gain before we really stepped into that role. And then I told myself that at that position because of what is in this role that I get to do is truly what I love, it’s what drives me, what makes me excited every day, if it ever opened again, I would be interested in applying and it did. And I was like, “Okay. Well, I’m just going to put my hat in this time. We’re going to see what happens and just go from there.”
Jasmine Nettles:
Yeah. And I asked you to clarify and just share that because I want for our listeners or just anybody that’s maybe considering it to realize when I say sometimes these jobs come at an inopportune time or when people say that, that’s not just cliche, that’s literally what happens sometimes. To draw the point too, it opened mid-year. So we were in the middle of running our halls, which is the same way I got my position that I have now as an associate director. It opened unexpectedly and had no intention of moving up that quickly. Technically I was in my sixth year as a full-time professional, but being in my institution for three years, it just opened mid-year and who’s moving mid-year in housing because you have to leave your building move up. And so I want you to talk a little bit about how you prepared yourself professionally and personally for the transition because deciding to apply is the first step, but then moving through that process and what was that like for you as far as your staff and maybe just your community in general?
Donovan Cyrus:
Yeah. So professionally it was really hard because like you said, this job opened up mid-year, the associate director job. And I think a lot of times those mid-managers, associate assistant directors higher level than just coordinator jobs they’re not usually on a timeframe of when those jobs are opening. They come whenever the position’s vacant. That could be December, wherever. And so at the time of me being a coordinator, I was doing a lot of different things. I actually had 26 RAs that I was supervising. We were going through some challenging times. There was two different staffs. Each needed a lot of help. And I had two grad students who I was also working with. And so professionally I was really struggling because I was like, “I don’t know if I’m really ready to lead this in the weeds with residents running and managing a building.” Because while I don’t do that now, that was still something I loved in that role. And so really having to have conversations with myself of like, “Is this something I’m ready to jump to professionally?”
And a lot of times that was having conversations with my supervisor at the time who really was a good driving force that was like, “This is an opportunity. You have been offered to it. Whether or not you get the job or not, you’re going to have an experience. And now when you apply later, even if you don’t get it, you’ve had the experience to do that and can talk about it and know if you go and apply again, what skills are you looking for to make yourself as an ideal candidate.” And so going through that and talking through a lot of the pieces, I think with what I was doing at the moment, this role had a lot of student step hiring, a lot of that piece. And I knew that that was a piece that I was going to be very strong in. But the training and development side was where I didn’t have as much of experience going into it.
And so I think really as I started to think about that, making sure that I gained some knowledge and gained some understanding as I was stepping into this role that I have actually trained people. I have trained a lot of students throughout the year and while I’ve not managed or ran it, I have done it and I have seen it and I have experiences to speak about it. So I think in that preparedness for me while in my interview I had to do that I also had to do that when I got into the role because I think a lot of imposter syndrome happens at that point because it was a new institution for me. I didn’t know how everything ran and moved and I was going to have people reporting to me who probably knew more of that than I did, and they would come to me with questions or answers and I’d have to tell them where we’re going with it, but maybe have to ask peers at the time, is this how we handle this or is this who they should be contacting if they’re having a facilities issue?
I think personally for that transition, it had a lot more impact than I probably give word to. Like when you’re leaving a place that you have put a lot of time into. I was running a building that when I got there, it was a place that no one wanted to be at. It was a place that had a bad rap. But within the time that I was there, I really got to build a culture with that building to where residents were like, “Yeah, I’m cool with staying here. I like being here. I like the people.” And so I think more in a personal aspect, having to move and being at a different level with people knowing that I’m not going to be with students every day like I am. While I’m with student staff a lot, I’m still at a distance with them because I’m not with them every day in their building. I’ll see them when we have training, I’ll see them when we’re going into different buildings and when I’m going into their halls to have a conversation with their supervisor.
But I think more personally, when you are moving to that next level, you’re now not in the weeds every day. That also means you’re going to be relying and be more connected with the people who you’re working with from a central office standpoint. At least that’s how it is here with us working in the central office.
Jasmine Nettles:
Yeah. And I love that you mentioned your building in your community. I think sometimes we don’t give a lot of credit to people who struggle with making decisions purely based off of that because we talked about already or just acknowledge the relationships that you build with your staff or just your communities in general, but deciding to leave them … I left mid-year at the same institution, so my students were still just across the quad, but you left your students in another state and had to come somewhere new where you didn’t know anybody. And so I think that making people just acknowledge how difficult that’s going to be and how you have that in the forefront of your mind and you still made what would be a difficult decision, I think, for anybody. Right.
Donovan Cyrus:
Yeah.
Jasmine Nettles:
And so I wonder, was there a turning point really? Like you were searching, obviously you had decided to apply. When did you lock in and be like, “Okay. Yeah, this is it. I’m going to do this.”?
Donovan Cyrus:
I think after I had given it some thought and I was given the offer, I truly was thinking, what is it that I’m wanting to do and what’s going to move me in my career? And this position was going to do that. It was not an easy choice leaving my people. It was hard to have to make that decision. But ultimately while I did it, I know that I did all I could for them. I tried to leave them in a good place. I think that moving into this position and leaving them, I now am moving myself to another way that I can be impactful for a whole nother group and have more pieces that I can give and be involved in and grow for myself. And it’s interesting too. As a student staff member, when I was at my undergrad, I moved quickly into what was a leader level as a student staff member. And then when I was in grad school, I actually got to run a building, a lot of me being hands on the ground because I didn’t have a direct supervisor who was with me in the building all the time. They had an adjacent building and that was where they were. But the building I had, that staff relied on me. And so I got to grow up a little bit faster than I meant to.
And when grow up I mean professionally, I had to step more into those roles and do what I needed to do to make sure my team and students were good. And I think that speaks a lot to how I’ve also treated this. At the same time, I had had experiences of managing a building. I had had experiences of supervising student staff. And I think by the time I got to my third year, I was starting to think, well, what is my next step? Because now I’ve managed a building for two, three years and have managed a large amount of student staff. What was my next challenging point? And while I can always do that through committee work, I think really jumping to this next level challenge me in a supervisory standpoint because you’re now managing entry level staff and not just managing that, with the role that I have, I make decisions that impact the entire team. So when I say we’re doing this for training and I’m telling the professional staff team, our coordinators, you all are expected to do this, I also have to think I’m asking them to do this work and making sure that they’re supported in doing what I’m asking. And so that was the challenging point to have to move from the coordinator level to being that mid-manager of a housing residents life team.
Jasmine Nettles:
Mm-hmm. So yeah. That leads into my next question for sure. What was your biggest mindset shift or biggest maybe learning curve? Obviously going from the coordinator to the ad, you were the one that did all the work, now you’re the one that organizes all the work, and so what was that like for you?
Donovan Cyrus:
Yeah. You know my answer to this. I really struggled with that delegation piece. And I think that’s the hard part of when you move into that mid-level point where you’re like … Like I said earlier, now I supervise people who do their own buildings, but how do I balance making sure they feel confident in doing what they’re doing, but make sure I’m not too far in with them to be a micromanager, but trust that they’re doing what they’re needing to do. And so finding that balance of support yet challenging them and not making you feel like you’re watching everything that’s happening. They should be running their buildings and doing all that work. And then had a train of thought that was going on. I think doing that as well.
Back to the delegation piece, I struggled delegating work because I was so used to being the one who did all of my work. When I was managing my building, it was me. Now that I’m at this other level and working as a manager, I have to rely on the coordinators or my chairs or the members of my committee to help delegate that work because between the 230 students we have going from recruitment selection and training development, there’s a lot of pieces and a lot of things moving. And I don’t need to be the person who’s always needing to be in the weeds of things. I have to trust that the people I have, I have trained and taught and shared my vision. I think also sometimes with them, one of the other challenges that I found was when I would ideate or I would bring thoughts or ideas and just throw something at the wall that what I was throwing at the wall sometimes stuck with the people who were around and heard.
And so you and I have had this conversation when you say something or share a direction or an idea you’re going with at this level, when you have people who are supervised below you, they take that as that’s what we’re doing or that’s the direction we’re going. And so I had to be a lot more mindful when I’m in conversation or discussion with people of like, “While I’m ideating and throwing things at the wall, that’s not what I’m saying is going to be the direction we’re going with.” And so I think there’s a lot of conversations like that that I’ve had to have and work with the chairs of my committees or members of my committees because being at that level, what you say and what direction you’re going with is what’s been decided. And so you have to be mindful of those things.
Jasmine Nettles:
Yeah. And I know that it is always so difficult too, especially when you didn’t anticipate being in a position like this after whatever your current experience was. But sometimes these things happen and when you end up in the roles, I think it’s how you take the role on and make it your own a little bit. And so obviously struggling is normal. You’re going to go into it faster than expected, but also there’s things you have to learn. So I wonder did you have maybe a mentor, any type of professional development experiences that maybe have helped you throughout your transition, especially because you went so quickly or maybe colleagues or anything like that?
Donovan Cyrus:
Yeah. Definitely peers. Obviously you were one of the people who I used a lot and bounced ideas off. I think being at a new institution, having a peer who is so well at making sure like, “Oh, you probably don’t know this. Let me share with you and help you.” From learning a new institution, especially if you’re moving from a coordinator from one school and going to be an associate or assistant director you have to learn a lot of the things like I said earlier. And so having someone who can help you with that and help you understand that, I think more so just in the adjustment of moving so quickly, I would say that my supervisor, who I had when I was here was really helpful with that. We had a lot of intentional conversations and talked a lot about how do I have these conversations or how do I trust in what I’m saying and doing is also the right direction and having just someone to bounce ideas with, but also to challenge me and being like, “No. You are going to have this conversation. You need to meet with this student or meet with this coordinator and actually be intentional and have those hard conversations.”
And I think that part of it is having someone who pushes you and supports you, but also to just also have an open ear and listening and being able to be honest and being honorable in those conversations. But I would also say my peers from other institutions who are also still in the coordinator role sometimes help me whenever I am in a place of like, “Okay. Does this sound right in what I’m saying? Does it seem crazy?” And vice versa for them. It’s actually been interesting. One of my friends, we’ve had a lot of conversations and while I can share a point of as a leadership member and as a associate or assistant director, I can share why maybe that context was given in that way, but they can also do the vice versa with me. And so it’s nice to have someone to talk back and forth with, but who are from two different lenses and two different perspectives as well. So that’s been a lot of help.
Jasmine Nettles:
Yeah. And you sink it into my next question that I wanted you to talk about. How has your viewpoint, how has your perspective of student affairs changed going from coordinator to associate director or just entry level to mid-level?
Donovan Cyrus:
I think it goes back to what I said earlier. When you are making decisions or you’re moving pieces or you may just make this slight change, it has impacts in other areas. And I think that as a coordinator, what I experienced, a lot of the decisions and things I were making were in my building. And it had, I would say minimal impact. It was impactful, but more so in a way that it didn’t really change a whole way that we do things. And now being in this associate director role, when I decide that we’re going to look at our hiring and make decisions of whether we are going to encourage people to come back and recommend that they return or not, that’s a different process than maybe what had been done before. And so being okay with trying things, but also knowing that what you do does impact larger components and larger people. Specifically the coordinators, because they’re the ones who are going to be involved with that. They’re the ones who are going to hear it from the students before you do you do.
And so just knowing that when you’re doing that, you have all the information and not just making decisions just to do it, to do it, but there’s rhyme and reason and able to back that up because you don’t want to make a decision that then impacts a whole other side of the office or maybe changes how something is done that’s normally been done. And so making sure you’re having those conversations and not just … We all like to throw ideas out there and see what sticks on the wall, but sometimes when you do that, that’s what people carry as this is what we’re doing.
Jasmine Nettles:
Yeah. And I think sometimes too, when people are making the decision of going from entry level to mid or deciding not to go entry level to mid, right, I think the context piece is lost and entry level professionals, we sometimes … And I know I got into the rhythm of it too. I’m good where I’m at. I know my rhythm, I know exactly what this is, and I know that I can do this position and I give the opportunity to move up and I’m like, “Oh, wait a minute. There’s so many more moving parts of this that I had not considered.” And there’s no way to really know what that’s going to look like until you get into the role. I hope that doesn’t deter people, which is why I wanted you to talk about that. To just wrap us up a little bit, what advice would you give to anybody that’s considering making the jump, whether it’s mid-year or just in general?
Donovan Cyrus:
I think my first biggest advice, and it’s what I would tell anybody who is ever thinking about, I may be interested in this job, it seems appealing, apply. No matter your experience, no matter what, apply and see what happens because you already know the answer if you don’t. And I think with that, making sure when you’re going to that experience that you are okay if the outcome is no or yes. And if it’s yes, truly taking into consideration if that’s where you’re ready to go to. Because you can always say no at the end, but if you don’t at least go and apply and see what there’s out there, you’re going to know the answer anyway. I think the other thing too that I would say is like … And I share this earlier. This position is ideally what I would want to be doing. So making sure that when you’re looking at positions or you’re about moving up that you’re making sure that it has in it what you’re looking for.
And I know sometimes that’s hard. You don’t really know until you’re on an on-campus interview or able to ask questions. But if it’s the ideal job and it opens up at a time that for you may not be ideal, whether it’s like you’re working the current institution you’re at and you’re like, “Well, I want to make sure I finish out the year. I don’t want to leave people hanging.” While it’s so respectful and I encourage people to take that in consideration because that should be something, I think as long as you’re being interested into it and you think that it may be an option, at least apply and see what happens because you don’t know. I would say these specific positions, like the associate director position I have is very unique to the student staff experience, but it also has in it leadership. And sometimes that is not always encompassed together, but it’s a part that I still love. And so this position overall is what I would ideally want to be doing.
And so for anyone who’s job searching, if that position opens up, the position that yes, this has everything I want to do in it, apply and see what happens and know that if you get it, and it may be at a time that is not the ideal best probably for where you’re at and who you’re currently working with, you still need to think about yourself and what is going to be the best because that job doesn’t always open again. If you don’t apply or see it, you would never know what happens.
Jasmine Nettles:
Yeah. I think if I added anything to that, your community doesn’t change if your job changes, even if you move to another state … Donovan left North Carolina came to Kentucky. And I love that you talked about how you still reach out to your peers and they still help you. And those are still your colleagues. You’re just in a different role in a different place. I would always say to seek advice if you’re truly considering doing something like that. And don’t just talk to the people that are absolutely going to tell you yes, don’t just talk to the people that are going to just automatically shoot your idea down because it just matches the vibe. But be very intentional about the people that you seek feedback from when you’re looking to do something like this. It’s scary in any role because you could stay in the same role and go to another institution.
And so I think that being a mid-level manager, it is not for the weak. It is not. I can assure you it is not. We in the trenches together most of the time Donovan and I and Holly Bowen, our third person. But I think that the fulfilling part of being an AD is the moment where you realize the decisions that I’m making are impacting not just my area or not just the three or four buildings I’m responsible for. It’s for everybody. And if that’s the type of impact or responsibility that you’re looking for, mid-level management is for you. It’s scary to think about it, but I hope that people are making intentional decisions in that way. So Donovan, thank you for joining me today. I am so appreciative of you taking time to chat with me. If you all are not aware, Donovan, where can they find you on LinkedIn? What is your name on LinkedIn to connect?
Donovan Cyrus:
My name is Donovan Cyrus on there.
Jasmine Nettles:
I wasn’t sure if it was Richard, that’s why I was making sure.
Donovan Cyrus:
Nope, it is Donovan. Feel free to follow and connect. If you have any questions or ever want to reach out and chat happy to do so.
Jasmine Nettles:
I love it. Well, that’s all for this episode of the Roompact ResEd Chat podcast. I’ll see y’all next time. Bye
Donovan Cyrus:
Bye.
