ResEdChat Ep 93: Self-Awareness and Beyond: Emotional Intelligence for Housing Professionals

Crystal Lay:
Hello, and welcome back to Roompact’s ResEdChat podcast, a platform to showcase people doing great work and to talk about hot topics in residence life and college student housing. I’m your host, Crystal Lay. I use a she/her series pronouns. I’m really excited about our guest today. I actually came across them on a social media platform where they were posting pieces about leadership. I thought it was very informative and really neat. However, one post in particular stood out to me, and it was a piece about emotional intelligence.
When I think about emotional intelligence and working in housing, a couple of things came to mind. Is it possible to keep your composure when you’re listening to folks talk about ups and downs in their lives when you’re dealing with trauma? There’s a range of emotions and feelings that can take place in the work that we do in housing. And so, I got really curious about the expectations or what’s reasonable when you think about emotional intelligence in our line of work. So I reached out to this human, and I said, “Hey, I think you would be great. Are you interested?” And thankfully, they said yes. And so with that, I’ll have our guests introduce themselves.

Joshua Fredenburg:
Awesome. Well, first of all, Crystal, thank you so much for allowing me to be a part of your podcast today. Super excited to be here and to talk to all the professionals that listen to this wonderful podcast. My name is Dr. Joshua Fredenburg, aka Dr. J. And number one, I’m an international speaker. I’ve been speaking within the college market specifically for about 16 to 17 plus years, so I’ve been to 49 different states. I also do some association professional development work as well. Also, I’ve written eight books with my newest book called the First Generation Student Career Playbook, which is really a step-by-step interactive book to help first-gen students not only navigate college, but position themselves for career success.
And then also, we do our Circle of Change Leadership Conferences. One that is coming up soon in Southern California, our 15th Annual Circle of Change Leadership Experience based in Los Angeles and then our First Gen Career Conference in Miami. LA is more focused on a leadership focus as well as career development as well, but really preparing student leaders, residential hall assistants, really to step up as leaders, and to really make an impact not only in their community on campus, but also once they graduate as well. So great to be here today with you, Crystal, and looking forward to the conversation about emotional intelligence.

Crystal Lay:
Yes, Dr. J. I’m so ready. You got me pumped up. Thanks for all the really cool things that you do to support student leadership and encourage that. So I want to start off, can you tell us what is emotional intelligence, and then how is it different than IQ?

Joshua Fredenburg:
That’s a really, really great question. And actually, I’m a certified emotional intelligence coach. They actually talked about this when I was going through our training, and one of the things that they talked about is they said, “IQ deals more with just your knowledge, your competency, whereas emotional intelligence deals more with your emotions. How do you manage your emotions? How do you deal with your emotions? How do you recognize the emotions of others and be able to respond in a way that leads to a positive outcome?” And the one thing that stuck out to me when they made the difference between IQ and EQ is they said that EQ, you can develop. And that was really eye-opening to me where they talked about you can have a low EQ today, but over the next, if you work on the skill sets, if you work on the principles, you can actually build it up. And so, it really focuses more on your emotions, your relationships, how you deal with people versus IQ dealing with your knowledge, your competence. So similar but yet different.

Crystal Lay:
Okay. So I love the fact that you can build upon it. We’re talking about college students, so how can being aware of emotional intelligence support our college students who live on campus? When would it be most helpful? And the first thought that comes to mind is I’m living with a roommate.

Joshua Fredenburg:
Yep. Right. Yep.

Crystal Lay:
So what do you think would be helpful in that particular instance?

Joshua Fredenburg:
Well, I think when it comes to emotional intelligence, again, there’s so many different dynamics in which to talk about it, but as a residential college student dealing with your roommate, I think number one is really getting to know someone different from you. A lot of times when you meet someone for the first time, you come from different walks of life, you don’t know each other, you’re not even sure about what their upbringing is. So you may have someone that’s from a rural area and another one that’s from the city. So maybe the language, maybe the way of doing things, maybe the personality, maybe a lack of education in certain areas could trigger someone to feel a certain type of way. Maybe they said something, maybe they do something different, and that causes a trigger to come in you.
And instead of taking a step back and relaxing before you respond in, I like to say, a respectful way, sometimes when you’re not able to identify your triggers, to identify those things that cause you to react a certain way, you may say, do, or act in a way that really just makes things worse. Again, just for those that may not be aware, what is an emotional trigger? Those are words, those are people, those are things, those are experiences, those are memories that cause you to feel a certain type of way emotionally. And when we’re not aware of them and we don’t develop what I like to call regulation strategies, we start saying and doing things that really can be outside of your character. A person can be a great person, but if you don’t know how to handle certain triggers, you may act in ways where people may view you in a way that’s not necessarily who you are.
And that’s why it’s so important to be emotionally intelligent because not only does it help you to be your best self, but again, dealing with the roommate that may say, that may do, they get on your last nerves and helps you to learn how to calm down and then have a respectful conversation with that person. That’s one aspect because I’m thinking about another aspect. It’s just being socially aware. We can talk more about that as well. And I like to define social awareness is one of the aspects of it is recognizing people and understand their emotions, their non-verbals, and knowing how to respond the right way.
The other is understanding the external impact that certain issues have on people. So, for instance, if I’m living with someone that had a family member devastated by the hurricane that went through the South, they may not be in the best mood. They may not really want to talk. They may not have nothing to say, and that doesn’t mean they don’t like you. It’s just that maybe they’re grieving, maybe they’re upset, maybe they’re sad, maybe they’re frustrated. And being able to be aware of the impact of issues on people can help you not become offended at things that sometimes offend people, but it’s not necessarily them, it’s just what the person is going through. So those are a couple of things definitely that I feel that EQ can do as far relative to helping their roommates and stuff like that.

Crystal Lay:
So it sounds like the key word is awareness, awareness of self, maybe the things that are happening in the world and around you, and then the other human you’re engaging with.

Joshua Fredenburg:
Yep, exactly.

Crystal Lay:
It also sounds like there’s no magic age when you’re like, “Yes, I am emotionally intelligent.”

Joshua Fredenburg:
Yep, exactly.

Crystal Lay:
Okay. So if you have a high EQ and you’re an RA for instance, or you live in as a student staff member, is there a way you can use EQ in your role like, “I am an RA. I have a really high… Is that such a thing to have a high EQ? And then, how do you use that in your work as a student staff member or a student leader?

Joshua Fredenburg:
Oh, yes. I think it’s vital for every student staff member that works with students on a consistent basis. I mean, I would make it mandatory personally. That’s just my personal opinion because number one, it helps you deal with stress. I think anyone that works within Res Life is dealing with stress, unexpected challenges, unexpected people, unexpected triggers. I remember when I was going to school, I remember there were, unfortunately, there were students that would curse out the person in charge. And so, how do you deal with that when someone just calls you out your name, disrespects you because sometimes you want to be quick like, “Oh, really? You said that,” but you’re the leader. You’re in charge. So how do you keep your emotions in check when you get disrespected in a way that you don’t deserve, by the way? But there’s a way in which you deal with disrespect that requires you to be emotionally intelligent. And so, I think that’s one area.
Obviously, definitely, social awareness, being aware of the emotions, being empathetic, being able to understand where people are at, being able to put yourself in the shoes of other people, that is really, really helpful. Understanding the external impact and how do I address certain situations? How do I determine policies? How do I determine rules? I think that’s another important element of it as well. Another thing is relationship building. How do you build relationships with people? I think when you’re living with someone, you got to be a relationship builder and not just relationship builder with people that you like. How do you build a relationship with a person that gets on your last nerves? How do you build a relationship with this person that you still have the responsibility to do right by them to make sure they’re okay, but yet they’re talking about you behind your back?
But as the leader, you still have a responsibility to do the right thing. So how do you navigate that? How do you work in those kind of places? How do you deal with people that aren’t listening to you, that aren’t following your instructions that you’re telling over and over again? I mean, these are a variety of ways in which EQ is going to help residential leaders become more effective as leaders in their jobs. And another thing, and I don’t know if we can get more into it, is how do you deal with your pain? One of the things that’s not often talked about when it comes to leadership is what does the leader do when they have to still show up although they’re dealing with external pain?
And that requires being able to identify, being able to be accountable, being able to be aware of your emotions, and really doing the work, whether it’s going to a therapist, whether it’s talking to people, whether it’s just self-reflection, but what are you doing to make sure you’re all right so you can actually serve at an optimum level? Because a lot of times what can happen is… Susan Taylor once said, hurt people, hurt people. And so, if I’m hurt or I’m dealing with issues or I’m dealing with challenges that are unresolved, that can come out in the way in which I treat other people, which ultimately has a reciprocal effect. So these are just some of the ways in which your emotional intelligence can either enhance your experience, or it can really make things much more tougher as a leader within the Res Life.

Crystal Lay:
Yes, because we don’t leave all our stuff at the door when we come to work, or we come back from a class and go into our community and we have to shield because we know that there’s this idea that resident assistants, RAs, are always in a fishbowl. Everyone’s always watching me. And so, what are the things that you are doing to care for yourself and creating your own timeouts? So something I do as a professional staff member, I’ll come into my office, I’ll turn my noise machine on, and I close the door. I might stomp my feet, I might give myself a little pep talk, and then I go back out into the world. And then also, I have a couple of days off coming up. So what are the things you’re doing to care for yourself so you can lead more effectively and better, but ultimately, first, caring for yourself?
So I love that, really being attuned to where you are in the balance of being a leader and knowing that there’s a pressure to feel like you always have to be on, and that can definitely take a toll. So I talked about high EQ. I want to talk about low EQ. Is it appropriate for me to go up to someone and say, “Oh, you had this reaction. I think this is low EQ.” That doesn’t feel like I should do that. So how should you address someone if you have some concerns and you think this could be a matter of them needing to manage their emotions differently or better?

Joshua Fredenburg:
Well, I just think, again, that comes back to social awareness and really understanding the person, understanding where they’re at, and then knowing how to communicate in a way that leads to a positive outcome. Some people, you have to be in the right space, you have to sit down, and maybe you have to take more of a coaching mindset like, “How do you feel about that? How do you feel this reaction,” and they can figure it out themselves. Some people, you may have to be direct towards, but it really just comes down to really understanding the person, really understanding where the person is, really understanding, “Is it the right moment to address the situation,” and then being thoughtful and intentional and effective in your communication. I think those are really, really important skill sets to understand.
For instance, I coach flag football with my son, and unfortunately, this past weekend, we had a coach, not a coach, but a referee that was really, really bad. And so, I was really, really upset. I was like, “I can’t believe this,” and my emotions are running. And at a point where I could really just really probably say the wrong thing, I had to stop and say, “Calm down, chill. You don’t want to get kicked out of the game. You don’t want to be labeled as a bad coach, so just chill.” And I had to regulate my emotions on the spot, and then I had to just work through that. And my assistant coach that was with me was like, “Man, I was just watching you because you’re a calm person. I’ll just explode.” So basically, my response was not only affecting me, but it was affecting other people as well. And so then afterwards, I had to reach out to the coach because my players said that the coaches were talking. And so, I’m in this thread, and I could just really just blast a person, but I was correcting my approach.
I said, “Man, thank you so much. You all won. It was great.” And then, I gave the insight. I said, “It was unacceptable, but again, good game,” so it was more of a sandwich principle. The guy gets back and he said, “We didn’t say nothing. Maybe one of my coaches did. I’m sorry about that.” We got on the phone. We created a good relationship. Everything is settled because I used emotional intelligence. Now, if I would’ve got in a situation like, “Y’all talking this, and you’re doing this and da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da,” just going like that, I guarantee it would’ve been a whole situation. I would’ve looked bad. They would’ve got upset, no telling where everything would’ve went because I wasn’t tactful, intentional, and wise in my approach to dealing with the situation. And that’s just an example of how using high EQ or connecting with someone with low EQ can be very beneficial for the leader.

Crystal Lay:
I’m writing that down, tactful, intentional, and wise.

Joshua Fredenburg:
Yeah. You got that.

Crystal Lay:
I love that. I’m going to take that one. I love that. So I’m going to give you a little bit of a scenario. So student leaders have a range of incidents that can happen. We talked about roommate conflicts, maybe they’re not getting along with their supervisor, there’s trauma. What’s the connection between navigating heightened or difficult situations and managing your emotions? So for example, I guess I’m going to go practical. Let’s say I can’t tap out. I have to respond. Physiologically, there’s stuff happening in my body. So are there practical things to help someone talk through, “I can’t leave this space. This thing is happening because of my job. I can’t leave this space.” And then, the other piece, I have an opportunity to tap out, but I don’t know how to ask for it because I’m nervous, or I don’t want people to make fun of me. So two different scenarios, but really, what are some practical tips, I guess?

Joshua Fredenburg:
So the first one, if I’m not mistaken, is you have to respond to someone and you can’t just walk away, you have to respond. Is that where we’re at?

Crystal Lay:
Yes. Yep.

Joshua Fredenburg:
Okay. And I think that’s good. I think we’re dealing with conflict because some people don’t like to deal with conflict. So I think the first thing is to breathe and to really take time to reflect before you speak. That’s really, really important because a lot of times, when we just respond, we’re responding out of emotion versus really taking the time to think about what we’re getting ready to do. So if you’re in that situation, I would say, “First, you just take a break for a moment, relax, think about the situation, and ask yourself the question, ‘What is most beneficial not just for me, but for the other person? So what’s the win-win in the conversation?'” And then, you respond in a way where it’s not just to get your point across, but to create what I call a win-win situation. And one of my friends once said, “Sometimes you write the email out, and then you go back and you do the email again so that you make sure that you’re really not just emotional, but you’re actually taking the time to really make sure it’s thoughtful.”
I wrote a book several years ago on relationships, and it came out of a bad relationship. And I’ll never forget, I wrote the introduction, and I was just like… Just give it to the person. And my dad edited the book, and he said, “Son, I don’t want you to write this because you may regret what you said,” and so he restructured it. And as I look back, I’m so glad that he did that because I may have said things that was based off hurt and emotion versus what really needed to be said to get my point across where it wasn’t putting down someone. So I think that’s the first thing that I think is important. As far as backing away and not feeling weak, if I’m giving your answer correctly, there’s nothing weak about just not having the conversation. I think that’s number one, understand. Because sometimes if you respond, you may say and do things that are outside of your character. I think it was one person that once said, “The strongest statement is just to say no and just let it be,” because you need that energy. You need that strength.
And a lot of times, when you start acting out of your capacity, now, you start to stress yourself out. You start to spend time on things that really don’t need to be spent time on. I always like to use an example of social media, especially during the political season. Someone will say something and you’ll get very upset, so you’ll go on social media, and you’ll be in a political debate and go, “You don’t know this. Well, you don’t know this. Well, you don’t know this.” And you waste all this energy. You’ve wasted all this time, and now, you’re tired, and you really wasted six or seven hours of your day when that person was never going to change their mind.
As a matter of fact, they did it to make you react the way that you reacted. And so, sometimes you got to learn how to say, “No, I’m not going to deal with this today. I’m just going to step away.” You win. Awesome. Congratulations, and just keep moving forward, and it’ll be best for you. And it actually may change their heart because of like, “Oh, this person.” They realize they can’t control you emotionally.

Crystal Lay:
Wow. So I love the practical tips, and I can see myself utilizing those. And then again, the slowing down, the pausing, and then thinking about what’s the impact. And I love that you talked about the win-win situation for everyone involved. So let’s say I’m a hall director, and I want to do an emotional intelligence activity with my staff. What are your recommendations? What can I expect? Is there a score? Is there like, “You have 77”? How does it work and how would you recommend someone facilitating that best practice, I guess?

Joshua Fredenburg:
Well, there’s a lot to talk about. I think number one, so I’m certified, so I’m actually certified to do a emotional intelligence assessment. That’s literally where someone would go through the assessment, and then a score would come out, similar to strength. Finally, a score would come out, and it would let you know where you are as it relates to emotional intelligence. And then, I could come back and begin to identify the errors in which you need to work on. By the way, it’s pretty inexpensive for students, by the way, but it’s a really good opportunity to go deeper and to really see where you’re at. For instance, one of the examples that I often use is empathy. I always thought that I was a very empathetic person obviously because I care about people. I’m a speaker. You would know that I’m empathetic. I care about, I listen to people, but according to my score, I realized I was low.
And I’ve realized that through the assessment. And the reason I was low was because I’m also a very ambitious person. I’m a doer. So what happens sometimes is when you’re a doer and you’re ambitious person, you don’t take the time to really cultivate the relationships like you should. Not that you don’t like the person, but you’re so busy doing so many things that you haven’t took the time to really get to connect with people and really build that relationship. So therefore, you’re not able to really connect in a way that you could if you weren’t so ambitious. And so, the lesson that I learned was I needed to be a little bit more, I’m using the word intentional again, as far as spending time and really connecting with people versus just going from person to person to person. That was just something that I learned through the assessment of the emotional intelligence, I guess assessment that I did.
But another thing that I talked about, just use examples. I was at an institution in Georgia, and I dealt with social awareness. And I talked about if this particular issue has happened, how are you going to respond in a specific moment? And so, now, you create the situation, and then you ask the student, “How are you responding?” And based on their response, you can evaluate whether it’s the right way to respond. Was it the right communication? Was it the right thing to say or could you have responded in a way that may be more better?
I guess, a good one would be mental health. If someone is having suicidal thoughts, how are you going to respond to that? What’s going to be your action in dealing with that from emotional intelligence? How are you going to connect in a way that’s going to be effective and ultimately lead to a positive result? Going through that process from an emotional intelligence standpoint could really, really be effective. Or maybe there’s a conflict and people don’t like each other. How are you using emotional intelligence to navigate that conflict and get these two to really navigate those processes?

Crystal Lay:
Wow. So I’m listening to some really cool pros. If I’m emotionally intelligent, there’s some really neat outcomes that can happen. I don’t know if you know this, but I’m going to ask, are there any health benefits to being emotionally intelligent?

Joshua Fredenburg:
Oh, for sure.

Crystal Lay:
I feel like there might be, but I want to defer to you as an expert.

Joshua Fredenburg:
Oh, absolutely. Your emotions affect your mental, they affect your physical, they affect your environment. I mean, emotions affect so many different things. I often hear people say that the number one silent, and I don’t want to, the silent killer is stress. Stress, people, unforgiveness, bitterness, all those things that get inside of us from emotions they impact us, and they ultimately impact our relationships as well. And that’s why it’s so important, I believe, to really always assess, “Where’s my heart? Where’s my state? Where’s my mindset? Am I in the right emotional state? Because it really does affect relationships. It really does affect your health because again, you hear it all the time. People are in toxic environments, and all of a sudden, this sickness comes up, this comes up, this comes up. It all starts with that emotions. I heard one therapist once say that if your gut is bothering you, there’s probably something you need to deal with, and that was really interesting to me when she said that.

Crystal Lay:
I’m trying to imagine a floor community with all these emotionally intelligent students.

Joshua Fredenburg:
Yeah.

Crystal Lay:
I wonder what that community would feel like. You know?

Joshua Fredenburg:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Crystal Lay:
Looking out for each other.

Joshua Fredenburg:
I feel it would be supportive.

Crystal Lay:
Yeah, supportive.

Joshua Fredenburg:
It’d be supportive. I think it’d be respectful. I think it would be a winning environment. I think that there’d be more encouragement, more empowerment. I think there’d be fulfillment. I think it’d be amazing, which is one of the reasons why I talk about in order to be an inclusive leader, you got to be emotionally intelligent because that really is a big force in creating that kind of space and environment.

Crystal Lay:
Dr. J, this has been so good. So we’re coming to the end of our time.

Joshua Fredenburg:
Okay.

Crystal Lay:
If there are folks listening or watching that want to learn more about emotional intelligence and the connection to leadership or the work that you do, do you have any recommendations for where they can learn more?

Joshua Fredenburg:
Yeah, they can go to my YouTube channel. I have a series of different videos on emotional intelligence, my emotional intelligence program. I would also encourage them to actually read… Daniel Goldman has a book called Emotional Intelligence 2.0. I think it’s a really great framework for basic development as it relates to EQ. And then, obviously, there’s tons of articles online, tons of readings that people can look into. But once you get an understanding of it and you begin to work on certain aspects of it, it definitely will make a huge impact in your progress moving forward as a leader, as a person in a relationship, helps so many different areas.

Crystal Lay:
I love that. I feel like there has to be more questions. I’m so passionate about this topic, and I’m thinking about supervisors who are watching. How do we encourage them and keep them motivated during a time that seems so difficult in our culture and our climate that’s happening? So just with that piece, is there anything else that you want to say that’s uplifting or motivating? You’ve already done that, but as we think about going into this year with our college students, any thoughts for supervisors out there?

Joshua Fredenburg:
Yeah, I think supervisors are even more important to be emotionally intelligent because as a supervisor, you create the culture just by leadership. We didn’t really talk much about that, but also, most challenges is about being aware of your impact on others. So your words, your behavior, the way in which you do things, the way in which you communicate, all that matters. And one of the things I think any parent would understand with kids is they actually pick more on what you do versus what you say. So a lot of times we can say certain things, but if our actions are not in alignment what we say, then ultimately, it’s going to be less effective.
And so, I would say to the supervisor is being aware of your actions and making sure that your actions are in alignment with your words and what you expect of others to do. I think that’s so extremely important just as far as leadership, but as far as even emotional intelligence. Are you modeling that? Are you dealing with it that way? I think it can go a really, really long way because again, if the leader is toxic, it can cause everybody else to be toxic as well.

Crystal Lay:
That’s true. We’re all out here setting an example and what legacy do we want to leave, not just after we leave, but while we’re there in that environment, right?

Joshua Fredenburg:
Yep, exactly. Exactly.

Crystal Lay:
I love that. I love that. So I am excited about the resources that you shared. I’m going to go look at your website again and see this new book you have coming out. And I’m just so grateful for you spending time with us. Lots of great information and so thank you. Thank you. So thanks for joining us today on this episode of ResEdChat. If you have an idea of a topic or person you’d like us to have on the show, please let us know. We will add all this great information to our show notes, and thanks for checking us out today. Take care.