ResEdChat Ep 85: Advice for ResLife to EdTech Career Transitions with Dustin & Paul

Paul Brown:
All right, and welcome back to Roompact’s ResEdChat, our podcast for people that work in residence life and college student housing and love talking about nerdy things related to it. So today, we’ve got a little bit of a flip. So you’ll notice our frequent host, Dustin Ramsdell is playing the role of guest, and I’m playing the role of host today. The reason being is Dustin and I were talking as we do regularly, and one of the things that came up as an important topic that people seem to be talking about is if I’m, let’s say, leaving residence life or student affairs in general and looking at an EdTech space, what is that like? What are the things I need to think about?
It’s a very different kind of industry. It has a different set of norms and rules and things like that. And we thought this would be a perfect opportunity for both myself who works at a software company, but also Dustin, who also has worked at a number of different software and tech related companies to talk about our experiences because we also come from two very different types of companies that we’ve worked for in the past as well. So welcome, Dustin. I don’t know if you need to do an introduction for our listeners or not, but why don’t you tell us a little bit about yourself?

Dustin Ramsdell:
Yeah. I mean, because I think this is an interesting conversation. Somebody who has worked professionally full-time in higher EdTech since 2016. I certainly have a lot to say, a lot of, reflected on as we’re preparing for this, but I did come up through very traditional path in residence life. That’s always a core part of my perspective and experience and knowledge about just working in higher education, particularly working at an institution.
So I got my undergrad degree at University of Delaware as an RA for two years, got my graduate degree at Rutgers University, worked there professionally in res life as well, and then worked two years professionally at a small private university up in Maine. And after those two full academic years, working in res life at that institution is when I just had that itch, knew I was looking for something different and stumbled upon an opportunity to work, still supporting students every day at a tech company. And my title there was student success advisor.
So that set me on this path where I really was trying to take that as an opportunity to learn as much as I can and never looked back. I don’t know if I will ever work professionally at an institution again, but it’s been a really fun experience, I think, to see higher education from a different vantage point, but still at the end of the day, serve institutions, serve students, and keep building my professional perspective on the space. And I’ll dig in more with all of that, but I feel like this conversation in particular, I’ve seen it really keep coming up more often and certainly get accelerated a lot as many things did with the pandemic.
A lot of people interested in finding full-time, remote roles, and just sort of having a change of pace where the day-to-day in higher ed, which is typically pretty routine, was very disrupted. So I think this continues to just be a very timely and relevant conversation where as we just keep saying the ripple effects of people really determining the wide breadth of options of what’s out there for still being able to work professionally in higher education, not just at institution.

Paul Brown:
Yeah, I like to say that you and I went higher education adjacent before it was cool. I think when you and I went, which would’ve been around the same time because I’ve been with Roompact now and that’s the only place I’ve worked after leaving the formal university environment for, I’m just over eight years now. So it would’ve been around that same timeframe as you. For my take on it, I gave a little bit of it away is when I finished my PhD in higher education and I was teaching at Boston College at the time, that was my crossroads. What do I want to do next? I originally came in with the idea that I was going to be faculty and I was going to teach because I love doing that.
But then when I looked at the reality of what that entails in terms of then having to go get tenure, where are the job is located, things like that, I said, “It’s still an option, but I started to narrow down the potential jobs that I would have just based off of my preferences of where I wanted to live and things like that and the lifestyle I wanted.” So I looked back into admin that also had those kinds of pluses and minuses, but my research being in technology and college students led me to say, “Oh, maybe I could work for a company that works with college universities and college students.” And that’s what really pushed me towards Roompact.
In terms of that initial impetus for you, for me it was leaving a PhD program. I’ve got a crossroads nicely laid out before me because I got to find a job now. What was your impetus then to go, “Oh, maybe I’ll work for a company instead?” Was there a trigger? Were there multiple triggers there?

Dustin Ramsdell:
Obviously, like I said, the core of the work, I knew that that’s what I wanted to do. I wanted to serve students, serve institutions, and really feel tethered into that environment in some shape or form. It was really the day-to-day culture, the way the organization operated, the tools that they were leveraging. I was finding just that, and I think any institution is on a spectrum with any of this, but just a lack of urgency, a lack of innovative thinking, and just not a lot of resources or a willingness to even really earnestly explore what’s out there, even back then in terms of digital tools to enhance the student’s experience and everything.
So I just was looking for a different environment to do very similar work, and I think that that was the connective tissue is the idea of my first position as a student success advisor. And you see this, I think has really spread pretty commonly across institutions and companies that support them is being a coach who’s reaching out and checking in with students every single day, responding via email or any numbers of means of communication. That was basically what I was doing in res life.
I was living with them in person in the hall and walking around and checking things out and everything. But at the core of it’s just talking with people, troubleshooting, encouraging them, motivating them. So I think knowing that there had to be an opportunity to do that just in an environment that felt more like the pace that I was looking for. And so the mindset approaching the work, utilizing innovative digital tools and everything.
So that was that crossroads moment for me, and I think stumbling upon somebody just sharing it out. And I feel like sometimes it’s just that serendipity, the right place, the right time, noticing it and just feeling confident enough to take a chance and let them tell me, no, don’t make that decision for myself. I’m very grateful for myself, I guess, to feel comfortable enough to take that leap and for them, I know this is one of my big reflections to put a stake in this one is that these organizations… And I saw this in 2016 and I’ve increasingly seen it at the different organizations that I’ve worked at, they increasingly understand and value the skills and experience that campus-based professionals have.
So if you’re really clear, really concise and specific and competent and showcasing yourself, that’s going to really go a pretty far away versus feeling as though like, “Oh, well, they don’t understand. So maybe I’m going to walk it back somehow, sort of like be humble.” These companies that work with institutions want to be able to say that they have people that understand the trials and tribulations of higher ed leaders and how institutions run and everything. They want to be able to leverage that perspective, that experience, and have you really informing the way that they approach the work.

Paul Brown:
Yeah, that really resonates me in terms of, you said, wanting a space where you could innovate and do different things that I also found in my higher ed campus-based career that was sometimes confining. I think I was actually pretty lucky in that a lot of the institutions I worked at, a lot of the leaders I worked for and with allowed me a lot of latitude. But I do feel like when I talk about people that I really respect that move into this space, they all do have some kind of a, I don’t even know what to call it, entrepreneurial bent or desire to look at things, use the word innovative or in a different way or that does not follow the traditional structures format, whatever that usually guide our work on campus. I think that’s one of the things that kind of also drew me to it.

Dustin Ramsdell:
Yeah, because I think there’s an alternate universe out there where if I had worked at somewhere different right out of grad school, I might not have felt that itch where I just think that they were… For better or worse, it was just a very casual culture. They just weren’t in a rush to do anything. And I think that’s fine. A lot of institutions just are very based in the routine, the culture, the tradition of just how they’ve operated and everything. And I think that’s certainly part of the reason why they’ve existed many of these institutions for as long as they have, but it’s also… And I think we’re seeing this existential crisis play out that that is not necessarily it’s going to get them to the next hundred years or whatever.
So I think that, yeah, I mean, there’s always going to be those push and pull factors. It’s not saying that writ large EdTech is always going to feel vastly more innovative and cutting edge and all that kind of stuff. You have to find the right company doing the right kind of work that’s going to click for you and everything. And sometimes you do just have to work through it of actually working there and determining where it’s too much of this or not enough of that in terms of just how they approach their work.
But I mean it really is, it’s a very good opportunity if you feel as though you’ve kind of been that black sheep working on different teams and all that where it’s like, yeah, I would describe this institution as innovative or I feel like my position has been able to make positive change, but I do feel like I’m still kind of bouncing up against the walls, the bounds of the sandbox that they’ve put me in, and I’d like to be able to stretch maybe a little bit more in a certain area. And if you find the right role at the right company, you can certainly do that.

Paul Brown:
Yeah. I mean, colleges and universities are generally conservative, meaning lowercase C, conservative institutions. They are generally slow moving. They are not quick to make decisions, and they’re deliberative for many good reasons and some positive effects come out of that, but also some negative effects come out of that as well. And when you mentioned that EdTech valuing folks who have that background, it reminded me that my colleague, Jong, who does our sales, does not have a residence life higher ed background.
He was an RA for a private housing company and so he has a little bit, he understands it, he’s learned it over time, but that is not his extensive background like it is mine. And one of the things that he query quickly realized is as the person who does sales, he’s like, “The sales cycle for universities is long,” meaning a university doesn’t just go, “Oh, we need software,” and then next week they have software.
It could be like, “Oh, we need software.” And then three later they get that piece of software or that piece of technology. It’s a very long process. And for EdTech companies having people that know how to navigate that, understand how that works, understand what has value, what has currency in those spaces, both in a sales way, but also I think just in a providing value and continuing experience kind of way is critical. I mean, that’s why I think one of the things that if folks think about, “Oh, maybe I want to go into some kind of EdTech type space,” like you said, there is that value there.

Dustin Ramsdell:
Yeah. Because I think it adds to their… As the company trying to sell something like the trust worthiness or just they can much more speak the language. And I think there’s also like depending on if they’re working more in an academic affairs space versus student affairs or who their target audience is, I think just people who… Even just the smallest dose, it doesn’t have to be where it’s like, “Oh, I’ve worked 30 years as a faculty member and now I’m going to move over to this company,” and that’s the prerequisite or anything.
It’s just like, yeah, even that just a brief exposure of just know enough to be dangerous kind of thing. I think not feeling as though if you’re earlier in your career, you have to wait your turn. It’s like I think nowadays we’re just seeing a lot more sort of opportunity for career pivoter and changers to say like, “All right. Well, I’ve worked at an institution for a couple years. I do think that I’d like a change. I’d want to work.” And I think this is an important distinction too like, “I want to work at a company that markets directly to students.”
I love living in that environment of engaging those students directly, or I want to work at a company that works directly with institutional leaders, and then, again, who are those people that we’re trying to engage about our platform or product? So I think those are parts of it of like what is the institution producing and selling? Who are they selling it to? And then what is your part in that? Because I think those are two pretty, I would say more often than not pretty separate segments.
If you’re a direct B2C, or B2B kind of thing, those languages, are you selling directly to students about using your study tool or are you trying to equip a higher leader at an institution with a platform to manage their tutoring services or something? Those are maybe going to end up in the same place where more students are passing their classes and retaining and graduating and all that good stuff. It’s two very different angles, and I think if you’re reflecting, that’s going to be part of it where you can hopefully start to focus like, “Well, okay, well I’m not going to apply to this company because fundamentally the work they’re doing I feel like just doesn’t resonate with what I’m hoping to do.” So that would be another quick reflection and tip for folks to be thinking about.

Paul Brown:
Yeah. I mean, that’s another thing is I think sometimes, especially folks that are initially starting this kind of exploration is really important to highlight is that EdTech is not a monolith. I mean, within EdTech, are we talking about a higher education community? Are we talking about K through 12? You mentioned, is it going directly to students? Is it going to an institution who then works with students utilizing it? How is that company structured? What is its purpose for being? You’ve worked for a few different companies right now. Is it three? How many kind of different EdTech companies have you…

Dustin Ramsdell:
Three different categories of companies, I would say. So two online program managers, OPMs as they’re often called in the industry. So both of those were in student support roles. One, I did marketing at an EdTech company that created digital experience platforms for institutions to use enterprise across campus. And then currently I work at a marketing agency that works with institutions on more of a program level to market, maybe a school level market programs or revamp websites and all that. So I feel like those are three good examples of ways that you could work. You could say air quotes EdTech, because this marketing agency anymore is digital marketing. We’re doing website redevelopment and SEO audits and analysis and optimizations and all this.
So much of it is empowered by HubSpot as a marketing tool. So everything is incorporated in that. So there is a lot of technical pieces to it. And then the idea of working at an EdTech company that is trying to sell this platform directly to institutions that is sort of one format. And then online program managers, we’re part of this big wave of enabling institutions to build out their digital education portfolios, and they’re honestly sunsetting really. That’s part of the market has reached its peak and is consolidating because a lot of institutions now are going their own way with building that out. But the idea of the way that just OPMs created contracts and all that, that I feel like is just its own sort of separate environment to work in. So three pretty distinct experiences that I can certainly speak more too more.

Paul Brown:
Well, you mentioned that last one that you were mentioning in terms of that’s kind of reached its peak and it’s consolidating. I mean, I think that highlights harkening back to when we said universities are generally little C conservative environments. They’ve durable. They’ve been around for hundreds of years in many cases, versus looking at jobs in an industry where it feels like things can change very rapidly. How have you navigated that? I feel like for some higher ed people that may be a little bit maybe scary, that maybe a little bit of a shock because it’s thinking about your work differently.
You don’t have the same level of security I think that most college universities provide you with where you feel like, “Oh, well, I’ve got my job and I can just stay in this forever or stay at this institution forever, which is not always the case anymore. But still I’d say certainly much more so than other industries.” How did you navigate that?

Dustin Ramsdell:
I mean, I’ll say initially one just thing that I wrote down immediately is, I mean, expect a bit of a culture shock once you start. As we’re saying, it is a different environment. There’s going to be a lot of different language. I didn’t fully comprehend or know I guess what I was in for that I feel like it was years of just learning new things and all that. But I think it’s just how we’re talking about it. There’s good and bad. So if you just know better going in that awareness can be really helpful.
But it’s the idea that entering into working in a corporate environment in EdTech like promotions and bonuses and things are more common. You’re going to have very clear metrics that you’re measured on and goals that you’re trying to achieve on a quarterly basis. Often, you’ll live more by quarters than semesters and that can kind of take some getting used to and even just having very clear quantitative targets that you need to hit and you’ll be measured against on a pretty routine basis and likely have performance reviews more commonly.
So I think it’s really understanding as much as you can, like taking the time to understand those policies, procedures and being empathetic to why those are in place because I think it could feel very, like you said, scary or abrasive, I guess that it’s all this scrutiny happening about the job you’re doing, how you’re doing and all that. But I think, again, all companies are going to do this differently. But that’s part of, I think, where I’ve found so much more reassurance, honestly, because I think sometimes you can work at an institution and you have that one annual performance review.
Otherwise there’s not necessarily a structure in place to make sure that you know that you’re doing a good job, whether you’re performing to contribute to the health of your program, your department, your division, and all those sort of things. So I think it took a bit of time for me to acclimate, but again, that’s part of it is like it would be hard for me to go back because I think sometimes just those structures aren’t in place to evaluate performance and reward the high performers.
Like you said, the idea of layoffs, I would say are likely more common in companies especially we’re just through a very wild time and tech and funding is dried up. But I don’t know. I think my advice, the idea of how I now approach this is just be very curious, ask a lot of questions, spend time talking to people and try to affirm what you’re thinking, what you’re feeling. Have quick little informal one-on-ones with your colleagues and say, “Am I to understand this correctly? It seems like we prefer to do things this way or that way,” because otherwise you might be making assumptions. And then making choices that aren’t congruent was just the way that that culture operates where you might work at a company and it’s like, “Actually, they seem to prefer talking over Slack versus email and they’ll do quick huddles through Slack and not do proper Zoom calls or whatever.”
And that just can help you be in the best position to feel comfortable and feel confident that you’re doing things in the way that maybe sort of the unspoken rules because they just move quick and they don’t necessarily take the time to elaborate in it in full detail. So I think this one, it’s a very sort of squishy emotional part of it. That idea of just like, “How does it feel to work in such a different environment?” And I think it’s just really that acknowledgement that there is going to be that culture shock. There’s a lot to learn, but try to just be patient, be curious and know that it might take a while because you probably at least have to get through a whole year of just all the different things that sort of come up of like, because I wrote down, elaborate on this one, I was just doing my brainstormed up of stock options.
That was something I had no idea how that works and all that. And I feel like I’m still learning about it, but that’s something usually after a couple months they’re like, “Hey, here’s your stock options.” And it’s just like, “I don’t know what this is. I don’t know how this works.” And you can sometimes ask some people and HR and stuff, but you might feel weird about, “Am I supposed to ask about this? Is it financial stuff or whatever?”
There’s just so much and I think you just have to have that awareness going in that it’s going to be maybe a little bumpy with just the knowledge base that you have existing in that environment.

Paul Brown:
Yeah. Especially for you and I entering into this space after we had already worked in a higher ed setting for a while. Right? It’s not like we left college, we immediately went into this kind of environment. So stock options would’ve been something that we would’ve learned about earlier on in our careers. There is a bit of learning and relearning in that. I guess one other thing I wanted to touch on too is what about starting to get into this with the different stylistic differences, but what even about the different types of companies like working for a company that’s been around for a long time, working for a company that’s been around for a year, working for a company that’s bootstrap, meaning they funded themselves, working for a company that took on a whole bunch of investors, working for a company that consolidated with all these other different companies?
Do you have insight into that? Because I think frequently when people ask me, because I get asked like, “Oh, I want to do what you do. I want your job.” One of the things I try to explain is my job is very different from the same job at another company just in terms of the structure of it, how it came to be and things like that. That just influences my work environment. Have you encountered that, especially since you’ve done more switching between companies than I have? So I think you probably have better perspective on this than I do.

Dustin Ramsdell:
Yeah. What’s been funny is I’ve gone progressively smaller in terms of the organization size for my first job. So that’s been interesting to examine. So the size of the company, if it spans international, those are just going to be parts of how much do you want that sense of urgency, the fast pace? Those are going to be things that slow down a company, if they’re a hundred-year-old company that is a publicly traded international consolidation of multiple different companies. That’s probably going to be slower pace. They’re going to have benefits of a lot of resources and things like that.
But it also feel like a cog in a wheel. You’re performing your one little function in your department. And that is more or less, I think what certain people are looking for. For smaller and younger companies, there is going to be more of that fast pace. And I think the important thing there is how comfortable are you with ambiguity? Those are going to be things where decisions are happening and then changing or it’s like, “Hey, we need to do this and it was due yesterday. We got to just going to scramble to get it done.”
And that again, it’s going to be more suitable for some people than others. And then I think, yeah, a big part of it is how is this company funded? Are they funding themselves through revenue growth as they get new partnerships and clients? That’s how they’re building their team and improving on their product. Or are they, and this is becoming a little bit less dramatic nowadays if you’re not seeing these huge funding rounds, but a lot of companies still are being funded by huge investment firms, so they’re getting valuations and money that’s put into them and they have to follow through.
And so the promises that they’re making to these powers that be, and again, that comes with a huge influx of resources earlier than they might have otherwise, which is great, but I feel as though that often is associated with much more scrutiny. You’re going to be held to much higher standard at a company that is trying to make good on the promises that they’re making with investment firms that are coming in and giving them money. But otherwise, I would say, it’s a good call out too of if you’re working in a company that has been acquired by another company or vice versa, that could just be very quirky depending on where they are on that journey.
If it’s recent, they might still have two different HR systems or two different insurance plan. And those will just be weird things of just relating to your fellow colleagues that are just different. But otherwise it’s some kind of subsidiaries and acquired companies operate pretty independently from their parent company and others they get acquired and then it’s just chopped up and absorbed and assimilated.
One of my things that I wrote down too is just doing your research. I mean, one part of it is you do that self-reflection about what you want to do, what type of company, and hopefully this conversation has help people to discern some of those things that they would think on. But if you do your research, you can understand like, “Oh, actually I didn’t realize this company is owned by this bigger company.” And just take that information, process it and just figure out, “Is that fine? Is that okay? Let me learn more about this company that owns them,” and see what’s going on there.
Because that’s going to just create a different environment for that company that you work at if they are beholden to a different company, because often they’re probably going to be trying to have the lowest amount of cost and the most amount of revenue. So you’re probably going to feel at times you have a lot of support and resources, but at other times it’s like, “Well, we are just a small department within this greater organization and they really are looking to get a certain output from us as part of their whole portfolio.”
So all really important things to consider and think about. I mean, as much as the EdTech market, I feel like it’s just always in flux. I am always seeing job openings. I’m always seeing new companies founding and is out there. So I think it’s just the idea of trying to catch the waves as they come and keep an eye on and an ear for what’s out there and try to network with people and get to know firsthand what their experience is like as you’re doing the exploration. Because certainly every company’s website is going to portray them in a very positive light.
So it’s like that is part of it. That is important. Look at their website. Understand how they speak about themselves, but also try to get a little bit more of anecdotal insights as well as much as you can.

Paul Brown:
And I think it’s similar to if you’re looking at different campus-based positions, different institutions do things differently. Is it a private university? Is it a public university? Is it for profit, not-for-profit? Is it religiously affiliated? I think one thing that I try to impress on people when they start looking at EdTech is you need to look at those same kinds of things. But of course I think the range of those things in EdTech is even broader.
Meaning in higher ed you can be like, “Okay, here’s the range and I know what those are,” but in EdTech that can be a number of different things going on. Company culture, how did it start? How long has it been in operation? What does that mean? Are they beholden to anyone other than themselves? What are their values? How do they live those out, et cetera?

Dustin Ramsdell:
And I’ll say even there is at least a commonality of there are publicly traded companies versus private companies, and that’s going to be similar to a public institution versus a private institution of just how they have to be transparent. But certain private companies, I know you all put out reports and all that. Sometimes you see, and I’ve seen this mostly with OPMs that are more closely acquainted with, they have often had the sort of light of scrutiny shined upon them and that they are transparent because people are looking at them. They’re trying to be like, “Whoa, we’re cool. Everything is above board here.”
But I feel like they wouldn’t have done it if people weren’t being like, “Hey, you. I’m testifying before Congress or this or that.” That’s just like I’m sure stressful for certain people where it’s just like, “I don’t want to to work at a company that’s having to defend themselves before Congress.” This is fun. I mean, those are just different kind of details I think that… I mean, it’s good advice. I think just getting those on people’s radar to be examining where it might be that if it’s like, “I don’t want to work at a public-traded company. That seems like it’s not fun. I’ve worked at a public institution, I’m going to go private corporations and all that.”
Hopefully, I think through all of this, if you can just give yourself a little bit more focus with the type of roles, the type of companies that you’re looking for, because, again, there is just ample opportunity out there. I think certainly not as much I think in this moment in time. I would say that’s a little bit more competitive than it has been in years past. But I mean, just focus is going to be the name of the game.

Paul Brown:
Yeah. I mean, think about your values. It’s hard to know before you jump into it what that looks like. But I basically work for what’s a small family owned business with no desire to take on capital or sell or anything like that, which is just a very different company when I have some friends that work in more corporatized environments and I just hear them talk and I’m just like, “I have no desire.” I went on vacation with one of my good friends who works at EdTech, and I was just hearing her on a call with all these corporate buzzwords coming out her mouth.
And after her call I was like, “How can you stand that?” And she’s like, “Honestly, Paul, I hate myself.” And I was like, “Okay, because I didn’t really think that was kind of you.” She’s like, “Hey, but this is what I do.” And in her case, this is a little bit more of a means to an end and she’s okay with that. I would not even be able to make it that far. But some people thrive in those kinds of environments.
If I were to give a piece of advice related to what you said then, especially for folks in housing, when you go through those vendor fairs at Kuhaua’i or wherever that may be, talk to those companies but also about themselves. Learn about it because there’s a lot of companies in that space that are very different from each other. Having been around that vendor area for a number of years, I’ve seen brand new companies pop up and disappear within the span of two years. I’ve seen multiple companies now become one company.
I’ve seen the companies that have been around forever and ones that are more newly established. And I think that’s a great space because probably those vendor folk will talk to you about, “Oh, this is what our company is like and things like that if you ask.” And I don’t know that I’ve ever been asked about that in that space before. Maybe you don’t want to tip your hat that you’re looking at leaving your job. So that might be why, but it is an opportunity to have those discussions.
Do you have any [inaudible 00:33:13] Go ahead. Yeah, I was going to ask you, do you have any other practical kind tips or things, people looking down this path that you wanted to add?

Dustin Ramsdell:
Yeah. I would say mean LinkedIn has been a great resource for me just to put myself out there, build my network, see jobs that are available. But I think that is not the end all be all. A lot of these smaller companies in EdTech will just be posting jobs on their website and you just need to know who they are, maybe follow them on social. They’ll share on their own social platform.
So I think some diligence there is time well spent. And then I do think I’ll just sort of bold, underline, circle what you said of talking to these people because that’s part of the networking piece of not just literally adding people to your LinkedIn network ad hoc and if you’ve never spoken to them or whatever, it’s like if it is a person with a type of role that you would like to have or works at a company that you’d like to be a part of or all the above, just having that conversation because I think those are the moments, like you said, I think you can hopefully get an opportunity to see what is going to differentiate product manager at one company versus another, and also just what differentiates that company from others in the space.
So I think, I mean, trying to do those informational interviews even before you’re really maybe fully embracing a job search, I think that’ll get you to that point of having that level of focus that I think is going to be helpful because I think I’ve often fell into the temptation of just play the numbers game, just apply to it as much as you can. But I think if we’re all really honest with ourselves, I think it’s we know or could and should take the time to figure out, “Yeah, I want to work at a bigger company in person, on a large team and start to really be specific with those things.”
And I’ve gone through that journey where I’ve done cycles where I definitely was just kind of scattershotting and then worked with the career coach and they’ve really helped me to refine that. It was a very insightful experience. I’m not saying that everybody needs to do that, but I think just that the broad strokes of that sort of exercise, that sort of self-examination and what is it that I’ve liked most about previous jobs or not, and through informational interviews being like, “Wow, it seems like based on what this person is saying, they’re on a big team and that sounds great, or they’re on a smaller team and that doesn’t sound great.” So those conversations I think can be really, really insightful.

Paul Brown:
Well, thank you so much, Dustin for sharing your knowledge with us because the whole impetus behind this was that one post in the expatriates of student affairs Facebook group that got me thinking, “Oh, people want to know about this people.”, it’s hard when you’re in a space as a campus-based professional that that’s all you’ve ever known to just be like, “Where do I start?” And you start looking at jobs, but you don’t know all these other contextual kinds of factors and other things that just take a while to learn about.
And so I couldn’t think of anyone better in my network to speak to that experience with breadth and diversity and knowledge than you, let alone someone who’s normally our host for our podcast that got to get in the hot seat today and play guest. So any final thoughts you want to leave us with?

Dustin Ramsdell:
Well, no. I mean, it’s always a pleasure hanging out and chatting and certainly chatting about this stuff. I mean, it’s been such a fun ride working in EdTech and like I said, still being able to serve students and serve institutions, and just appreciate the opportunity to reflect and share some tips with folks.

Paul Brown:
Thanks, Dustin. I appreciate it. And for those of our listeners, if you have a topic that you want us to address, just reach out to us at ResEdChat and we’ll see if we can get it on one of our future episodes. Have a great day, everyone.